Diesel

[FIESTAFROG]

I have heard that because of the truckers crossing the border for fuel, they are running out of diesel alot. Can anyone tell me if there is diesel in RP? Is there one station that is cheaper than others? I just bought a diesel and need some info on diesel in RP.

[Stuart]

I've never had any problem with getting diesel in Mexico. Anywhere. It's cheaper than gas. The price is standardized (supposedly), so there isn't going to be a big difference in price no matter where you buy it. I tend to fill up at the Circle K in Sonoyta when I cross into and out of Mexico. They get a fair amount of traffic, so the diesel is fresh. The price is currently about 6.7 pesos a liter everywhere when I was driving to and from Sam Carlos last week. That's roughly $2.50 a gallon, about 1/2 of what we're paying here.

Is your diesel brand new? If so, it requires ULSD, which is all that is sold in the U.S. now. Mexico doesn't have that requirement, so if your truck is brand new, you risk voiding the warranty by running Pemex diesel in it. The Pemex fuel itself, however, is excellent quality. My 7.3 F-250 loves the stuff and has only had a tank or two of U.S. diesel in the past few years. I paid $113 to fill it up here before we left on our trip (it had a 1/4 tank), then never paid more than $50 to fill it up the whole time we were in Mexico!

[FIESTAFROG]

Thanks Stuart! I bought a 2004 F250 crew. So I assume the diesel would be fine. Ive never owned a diesel before so I am learning. I intend to have a spare tank installed to "load up" on diesel while im down there. Do you know any good places to buy extra tanks here in the valley?

[Stuart]

There is an outfit in Mesa that does it, but I don't know the name off-hand. Transfer Flow Technologies offers replacement tanks that fit where your current tank goes that nearly double your capacity. I'm going that route, it's around $600-$700 and would pay for itself in just a few trips, given current diesel prices. You can Google them to find more info on their products. My 2001 F-250 Crew has a 28 gallon tank stock; you're probably the same. The Transfer Flow replacement increases capacity to 46 gallons. Even towing, that would give me enough range to fill up in Sonoyta and make it back! Screw these high U.S. diesel prices! :x

Submarine on this forum may chime in; I think he knows who installs these in Mesa.

[FIESTAFROG]

I was also thinking about those bed tanks that have the tool box on top. Then id have room for my crap also

[Stuart]

Don't go that route. The Mexicans have a muy giganto problem with auxillary tanks. They do not want you bringing any fuel over the border (which is insane right now anyway because who would bring $4+ a gallon gas when it's half that there? Kind of like bringing sand to the beach!).

The tank I described above is a complete replacement of your existing tank and would never be questioned.

My friend Audi had a big aux tank in the bed of his pick-up, like a 100 gallons. He used to fill it here, then fill his boat with it down there. They turned him around at the border. He sat in the parking lot at Gringo Pass and sold it to anyone who wanted it for a buck a gallon just so he could get over the border.

So... just keep that in mind. No problem taking it into Mexico empty and bringing it back full, though.

[FIESTAFROG]

no problem there. I have no intention of smuggling $4.69 fuel into a place where its $2.65! lol How do they check your tank to make sure its empty?

[rockyptjoe]

I just bought diesel last week when I got down to RP....and it was still 5.8x pesos per liter. Sounds like the border towns are charging more. When I asked at a couple of the stations here in RP, they all had diesel.

The only problem I've had is getting some water in the fuel, and I've filled up at the station as you're leaving town(right before the airport). As someone else posted, if you have a 2007 and newer, You'll have problems with your warrantee if something goes wrong, like potentially problems with some of the sensors on the new ULSD diesel vehicles.

I've been picking up about 50 extra gallons every trip down here...have a racing fuel barrel I bring along, and have been hassled a couple of times by US Customs.

[FIESTAFROG]

what station did you get your deisel in RP?

[rockyptjoe]

what station did you get your deisel in RP?
I've been getting it at the first Pemex as you come in to town....out by the airport. I also checked at the one on Fremont, by Reggie's, and they also indicated they had diesel last weekend.

[FIESTAFROG]

If anyone knows a good place to get an auxiliary bed tank, let me know! Would like to have it in before next weekend.

[AZ Miguel]

I've also been hassled by Customs when returning with my tank in the back filled. They act as if it's going to destroy our nation. I know they have a job to do and I respect that but when I'm not doing anything illegal and I have to to give them the stare like: what the #$%^% do you idiots want? then it gets annoying and they let me go. Do you have to declare fuel when coming back into the US as long as its less the amount alloted? They said I was only permited to cross once every 30 days with fuel?

[FIESTAFROG]

what is the alloted amount of fuel? I was going to get a 100 gallon auxiliary tank

[Submarine]

http://www.transferflow.com/

Superduty HQ at Cooper and Baseline will install, but I don't mind helping if you'd like to go the DIY route. It's not hard at all, you just need a floor jack and some time. If I didn't need my bed I would do the replacement tank and the toolbox tank, but the replacement is easier and cheaper. 46 gallons gives me about a 700 mile range.

If customs is harassing us for fuel we need to start complaining. I can see if we are hauling an empty tanker truck down but no one is filling up more than they can use. If they want us to pay the 18.6 cent per gallon diesel fuel tax that would be fine (but still stupid). Anyone hassled should be asking what US Code or regulation that falls under because I haven't found anything.

I've been using the Transferflow tank for over 3 years with no issues. A nice side benefit is if someone wants to drill your tank (which I still think is pretty rare), it's all metal, not plastic, so go for it!

Just had to top off my truck with US diesel for the first time this year yesterday. $140 for 2/3 tank no thanks! I guess I'll be doing more Mexico travel until this fuel situation comes back to reality.

[FIESTAFROG]

Just went to their they are "twice" as much as quality bumper for the same thing!

[Submarine]

who Superduty HQ? When I was looking, they wanted about the same for the tank itself, a couple hundred to install it. They do some nice work though. I'm not a huge fan of Quality Bumper, they were way too expensive when I was looking for nerf bars. But yeah, shop around.

[FIESTAFROG]

This is what im looking for... http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200306737 (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_6970_200306737_200306737)

But cant find anything like it in Arizona. I need it by this weekend or id buy this one. Still may but hate to waste the opportunity for getting fuel while im there!

[rockyptjoe]

Diesel in RP this past weekend....5.91 pesos per liter (3.785 liters/gallon) at the station on Fremont by Reggies....but would up paying $38 taxes/service charges at the border to ADOT for 50 gallons....read the story below!!!!

OK....just got back from RP....picked up 50 gallons in a racing fuel barrel that I've been using for over a year. Got sent over to the inspection area by the Customs people...where I was checked by the ADOT people.....wound up having to pay a $25 Service charge plus 26 cents per gallon TAX....I got a bit hot under the collar with them, and demanded the ARS that applied...which after a bit of time they provided (the cite, but didn't give me a hard copy.....I was able to read part of the applicable document from their copy).....which I plan to read in detail when I get it online.

The gist of it is....ADOT is cracking down. They have an agreement with Customs to have anyone coming across with fuel sent over to the inspection area....IF....and here's the big IF....if there is space(4 stations at Lukeville)....or if there is an ADOT person on duty there (I missed that by aabout 1 hour...when they were supposed to end their shift). The ADOT people are going to zap us 100% if we are sent over there. They also told me essentially that if I bring back any kind of fuel containers with fuel in them (even gas), I will get charged with the tax.....this applies to those of us who bring any kind of toys down there (jetskis, quads) and have fuel jugs....even if it's fuel we may have bought in the US, but didn't use down there. I was lucky I didn't fill my 3 empty jugs from the jetskis..,..would have paid the tax on that fuel.

Essentially....the state wants their pound of flesh from us....called taxes!!!

Just an additional bit of info....the quick look I had of the ARS...it appears that any extra "built in" fuel tanks (like in the truck bed)...or larger than "stock" tanks might be taxable...although I got differing opinions from the ADOT people. Mine comes with a 35 gallon tank, so anything over might be a problem...although I don't know how they could measure what I had if it was installed under the truck.

When I get a copy of the ARS...I'll either post a link, or just give the citation so that everyone can read it for themselves.

[Stuart]

Interesting. It's always been my understanding that Customs in Arizona in not authorized to collect duties. I've been told this by the Customs themselves when I had an extra bottle of two or liquor. They can confiscate, or let you go, but they have no power (or mechanism) to collect duties on any overages.

ADOT is obviously a whole different organization. What you describe borders on ridiculous. The "Average Joe" bringing back a couple of cans/jugs of fuel with their jetskis or off-road vehicles is extremely common. Having to pay taxes and surcharges on this is insane! I mean, I can see it if you were importing a tanker truck of fuel. But anything under 50 gallons is but a drop in the bucket, so to speak. I guess the 20% drop in AZ tax revenue is hurting the state more than we know and they're going to try to make up every penny of it in every way they can. :roll:

I tow a boat with a 250 gallon capacity and nobody has ever asked me how much fuel is in it. Maybe because the tanks are physically part of the boat and not "loose" or auxillary. But what's to stop me from filling it to the top in Sonoyta and towing it home, then using that gas for my car? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except that I hate towing it full because it's like a bloated whale on the trailer with all that extra weight.

Time for the TransferFlow tank. Like I said earlier, if it appears to be original factory equipment (not aftermarket or an accessory), you shouldn't have problems going either way over the border. Sub - I may contact you for assistance. I'm sure it's not that hard to do, but looks to be a two man job anyway. I'll buy the beer! Let me see how much shipping is versus SuperDuty HQ's installed price.

[Submarine]

It's definitely a two man job. My garage is evap-cooled so if you truck is under 6' tall we can do it in there.

Now I can understand the Federal government trying to collect import duties, but the State? Since when does the state have authority to control customs? That should be a federal authority only. I smell a rat and a big fat lawsuit. Time to start bringing video cameras to the border and documenting what they are doing.

ARS online: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp

Well I've tried calling a few DHS numbers but no one is answering. I don't see how this wouldn't qualify under your $400 exemption and Federal law should pre-empt the State from employing any officers at the border.

[rockyptjoe]

Interesting. It's always been my understanding that Customs in Arizona in not authorized to collect duties. I've been told this by the Customs themselves when I had an extra bottle of two or liquor. They can confiscate, or let you go, but they have no power (or mechanism) to collect duties on any overages.

ADOT is obviously a whole different organization. What you describe borders on ridiculous. The "Average Joe" bringing back a couple of cans/jugs of fuel with their jetskis or off-road vehicles is extremely common. Having to pay taxes and surcharges on this is insane! I mean, I can see it if you were importing a tanker truck of fuel. But anything under 50 gallons is but a drop in the bucket, so to speak. I guess the 20% drop in AZ tax revenue is hurting the state more than we know and they're going to try to make up every penny of it in every way they can. :roll:

I tow a boat with a 250 gallon capacity and nobody has ever asked me how much fuel is in it. Maybe because the tanks are physically part of the boat and not "loose" or auxillary. But what's to stop me from filling it to the top in Sonoyta and towing it home, then using that gas for my car? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except that I hate towing it full because it's like a bloated whale on the trailer with all that extra weight.

Time for the TransferFlow tank. Like I said earlier, if it appears to be original factory equipment (not aftermarket or an accessory), you shouldn't have problems going either way over the border. Sub - I may contact you for assistance. I'm sure it's not that hard to do, but looks to be a two man job anyway. I'll buy the beer! Let me see how much shipping is versus SuperDuty HQ's installed price.

The actual tax that ADOt is collecting is a drop in the bucket......it's the "administrative service charge" of $25 that is the big one.

[Submarine]

Yes that is the kicker. Here is the statute they are using:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp ... ocType=ARS (http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/05607.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS)

28-5607. Fuel imported by other than licensed supplier; payment of tax; fee; import limitation

A. A person who is not licensed as a supplier and who imports motor fuel from a point outside this state to a point in this state shall pay both:

1. The tax at a department facility approved by the director before importing the fuel.

2. A twenty-five dollar administrative processing fee.

B. A person who is not licensed as a supplier and who causes motor fuel on which taxes have not been collected to be transported from a point outside this state to a point in this state shall pay to the director the following:

1. The tax required by section 28-5606 or 28-8344.

2. A penalty equal to the tax required by section 28-5606 or 28-8344.

3. Interest of one per cent per month or portion of a month on the tax.

C. A person who is not licensed as a supplier may not import more than sixteen thousand gallons of motor fuel per calendar year.


So it seems to me that this statute is of dubious constitutionality as far as Art 1 sec 10 of the Constitution goes, and quite possibly elsewhere.
"No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress. "
Also, if Mexico collects any taxes on fuel sales then we are exempt from that statute. I've been looking for that but gotta pick it up later. Anyone wanna try?

I did email as many news organizations as I could and I suggest others do. Time to shine a light on this shakedown. Mordida.....Arizona Style!

I hope you made them give you a receipt Joe! Seemed like ADOT just opened up a can of angry wasps!

[Submarine]

More issues:

Key Fuel Programs – International Fuel Tax Agreement
The International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) is a single system for collecting and distributing fuel taxes based on where fuel is consumed rather than where it is purchased. IFTA simplifies fuel tax registration and reporting requirements for
inter-jurisdictional motor carriers, such as truckers who travel frequently to other provinces or into the United States.

Under IFTA, carriers register with their base jurisdiction and receive an IFTA licence and decals allowing them to travel through other IFTA member jurisdictions. Please see Register for a Carrier Licence for more information about registering.

Registered carriers file a single quarterly fuel tax return and make payment to their base jurisdiction. The base jurisdiction processes the return and forwards funds to, or requests funds from, each jurisdiction for net fuel taxes. Please see How to File for more information on filing an IFTA tax return.

IFTA jurisdictions currently include all Canadian provinces and American states, with the exception of Alaska, the District of Columbia, and Hawaii. The Yukon Territory, Nunavut, Northwest Territories and Mexico are also currently not members of IFTA.

Commercial motor vehicle means a motor vehicle that is used interprovincially or internationally for the commercial carriage of passengers or goods and that:

has two axles and a gross vehicle weigh or registered gross vehicle weight exceeding 11,800 kg (26,000 lbs), or

has three or more axles regardless of weight, or
when combined with the trailer with which it is used, has a gross vehicle weight in excess of 11,800 kg (26,000 lbs)
but does not include a recreational vehicle

You do not need an IFTA licence or trip permit if:

you use your qualified motor vehicle exclusively as a recreational vehicle for personal use by an individual,
you use your qualified motor vehicle exclusively as an ambulance, school bus, fire truck, taxi or police vehicle, or
you use motive fuel (diesel, biodiesel or a combination of diesel fuels) to operate a commercial motor vehicle registered for farm use outside of British Columbia

If you are not registered under IFTA, you must purchase trip permits each time your vehicle enters another jurisdiction or returns to BC or you may be subject to fines or penalties.

For more information please see Bulletin MFT 008, International Fuel Tax Agreement, or the British Columbia - IFTA Operating Manual

[Submarine]

OK this article:
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/13 ... -stickup13 (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/13/business/fi-stickup13)

makes it sound like fuel is deducted from Mexican income tax (besides being rampant with fraud). So if they are allowed to deduct it, then it's already a tax which would exempt the AZ statute as written.
http://uneprisoe.org/Pricing/FuelPricingPolicies.pdf
see page 37 of the document, 45 on your Adobe reader. Seems like we are being taxed!

[Submarine]

Fight 'em Joe!

28-5928. Legal remedies

A. An injunction, a writ of mandamus or any other legal or equitable process shall not issue in an action or proceeding in any court against this state or against any officer of this state to prevent or enjoin the collection of any tax, fee, penalty or interest required by this chapter to be collected.

B. A person against whom an assessment under this chapter has become final pursuant to section 28-5924 may bring an action against the director in the Arizona tax court for recovery of the amount paid if the person:

1. Pays the amount stating it is paid under protest.

2. Verifies and states the grounds for objection to the legality of the payment.

3. Pays the amount within ninety days after the assessment becomes final.

C. The person shall institute the action provided in subsection B of this section within thirty days after payment under protest. Failure to bring an action within thirty days constitutes a waiver of all demands against this state on account of the protested payment. A court shall not consider a ground for illegality other than that stated in the protest filed at the time of payment.

D. If judgment is rendered for the plaintiff, the director shall both:

1. Credit the amount of the judgment on any tax, fee, penalty, interest or other amount due from the plaintiff under this chapter.

2. Refund the balance to the plaintiff.

E. A court shall not render judgment in favor of the plaintiff in an action brought against the director to recover any amount paid under this chapter if an action is brought by or in the name of an assignee of the person who paid the amount.

F. A person aggrieved by a decision or order of the director issued pursuant to section 28-5924, except for an assessment for taxes, fees, penalties or interest, may seek judicial review of the decision or order in the Arizona tax court pursuant to title 12, chapter 7, article

[rockyptjoe]

Here's where they get you on any tank add-ons or larger then stock fuel tanks....

28-5608. Fuel imported in fuel tanks; violation; classification

A. An owner or operator of a motor vehicle, watercraft or aircraft who imports motor fuel into this state in the fuel tank or tanks of a motor vehicle, watercraft or aircraft in a quantity exceeding the capacity of the fuel tank or tanks of that vehicle, watercraft or aircraft according to the manufacturer's stock specifications shall pay to the director the tax required of suppliers on the excess motor fuel.

B. A person who violates this section is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.

[rockyptjoe]

Well, after reading all of the garb age in the ARS....it appears that I was overcharged for the diesel tax....I should have been charged 19 cents/gallon, instead of the 26 cents/gallon. I'm sure that everyone that came thru Lukeville and got stopped, also got mischarged!!!

Class Action Lawsuit???? LOL..........

[Submarine]

Well we need to start complaining or they will just keep doing it. Like cockroaches, they will run if you shine a light on 'em.

[dmcauley]

I live in Mesa and I'd love to get one of the under truck tanks for my Chevy but where?

[Stuart]

Hey DM,

Start here to figure out what you need:

http://www.transferflow.com/gm_tanks_0.html

Look here to find out locally who does it, then call around:

http://www.transferflow.com/fuel_tank_installers.html

To give you an idea, Super Duty HQ quoted me $1084 installed and out the door; 1/2 day job. They said it takes about to or three days to get the tank, so you have to schedule in advance. Basic tank kit for my F-250 is $743 from TransferFlow. I didn't get a quote on shipping. So, they're charging about $340 for installation (shipping is probably included in that, too). Replacement tank weighs 175 lbs. and is shipped by commercial truck carrier, so it's going to cost a bit to ship due to weight and bulk size.

[Submarine]

Rates can change but I believe it was around $100 for shipping and they used Yellow Freight or Rodeway and it was door-to-door. We did it in less than 3 hours so probably less time knowing how the fuel lines come off etc. Make sure you have a pretty empty tank before you want to do it though!



Anyone who gets jacked for mordida by ADOT needs to call Gary Harper of 3 On Your Side at 602-207-3431. Around 9-10 am seems to be a good time to get ahold of him but he does return phone calls. Gary likes to visit Rocky Point too and is very interested in this story, but he needs some first person accounts.

[FIESTAFROG]

OK, I just got back from RP. I had my 80 gallon tank installed in the bed. I came across with about 115 gallons of diesel total. I got the rude mexican guy that cant speak english. How did HE get a job in border patrol? Anyways. I couldnt understand a word he was saying and he was very rude. I just played dumb. After trying to undersand him for 15 minutes, He let me go! no tax, no fine, nothing! I paid $2.30 a gallon.

[AZ Miguel]

I've also been hassled by Customs when returning with my tank in the back filled. They act as if it's going to destroy our nation. I know they have a job to do and I respect that but when I'm not doing anything illegal and I have to to give them the stare like: what the #$%^% do you idiots want? then it gets annoying and they let me go.


FIESTAFROG, Sounds like you got the same treatment I get.

[Submarine]

Well a disappointing report from 3 On Your Side about ADOT taxing fuel crossing the border. Nothing about the legalities of ADOT's actions, the cost vs. benefit, or the fact that we are being double taxed. I like the 'rolling bomb' excuse, as if suddenly fuel cans that are DOT approved are a safety hazard if actually used.


Arizona officials taxing gas brought in from Mexico

More 3 On Your Side Reports

05:30 PM Mountain Standard Time on Wednesday, July 16, 2008

By Gary Harper / 3 On Your Side

PHOENIX -- Looking for a break on high gas prices?

Mexico seems to be the answer for a lot of people. That's because gas in Mexico is just downright cheap compared to what we're paying.

It's so cheap that many Valley residents started transporting gas from Mexico back into Arizona so they could use the gas here.

But then state officials found out what was going on and put the hammer down.

Joe Kolisek likes his toys. He also likes to take them down to Rocky Point in Mexico so he can enjoy them on the ocean.

But before crossing back into the United States, Kolisek always brings back extra fuel for his jet skis, and why not? Gas isn't nearly as high in Mexico as it is here.

"The gas prices are a couple bucks cheaper a gallon down there and diesel fuel is about half the price," Kolisek said.

And cheap diesel fuel in Mexico is why Kolisek always fills up a 50-gallon barrel and brings it back with him to Phoenix.

The reason? It helps offset the high prices here.

But on a recent trip, Kolisek got a surprise inspection as he tried to cross back into the United States and that inspection wasn't done by Customs. It was performed by the Arizona Department of Transportation.

"The ADOT agent told me that they started cracking down two to three weeks ago," Kolisek said.

He's right. ADOT tells 3 On Your Side that there is such a large number of people transporting fuel back into Arizona that the agency started dispatching agents around April to inspect and tax anyone who gets caught at the border.

"We collected around $4,000 or $5,000 in taxes and by June that amount had doubled," said ADOT spokeswoman Cydney Demodica.

Kolisek wasn't happy at all when he had to come up with tax money for the fuel he got caught with.

"I was hit with a $25 service fee and also taxed at 26 cents a gallon for the fuel I was bringing in," he said.

The grand total? Kolisek had to cough up $38 and hand it over to the ADOT agent.

So much for saving money on cheaper gas.

But the transportation department insists it's not harassing people.

"It isn't that ADOT is picking on them," Demodica said. "This is what the law requires us to do."

But, don't trying telling that to people like Kolisek.

"They see people are taking advantage of crossing the border and they want to get their tax money," he said. "It's sad."

I want to clarify something. If you buy gas in Mexico and the gas is actually fueling an engine, then you are not taxed. For example, if you fill up your motorhome or you fill up your sand rail, that's fine because it's feeding a motor.

However, if the gas is simply in containers or barrels, that is when you can and will get hit by the tax man.

ADOT says it really boils down to a safety issue, too, because driving down the road with barrels of fuel can be like a "rolling bomb."

[AZ Miguel]

However, if the gas is simply in containers or barrels, that is when you can and will get hit by the tax man.

ADOT says it really boils down to a safety issue, too, because driving down the road with barrels of fuel can be like a "rolling bomb."

So if the state charges you tax for importing from Mexico because it's a safety issue, then what reasoning a are they using that charging a tax will remove the risk?

One thing I've experienced with ADOT over the years is they have as many explanations for any one item as they do employees.

More then likely someone that has no authority to approve this operation set it up and I expect it'll be removed soon after this broadcast.

[Stuart]

It all comes down to revenue (or current lack thereof), as I said in a previous post. The state is hurting right now and will do everything in its power to get money out of your wallet and into its coffers. ADOT has never done this before and doing it now is absolutely ridiculous.

Can I fan the flames to prove my point? Today's AZ Republic (and dear friend of both Sub and I, one E.J. Montini), pointed out how the state plans on installing a whole network of photo radar cameras around the state. Get caught by one and you'll have to pay about a $180 fine. HOWEVER - if you pay your fine, the ticket is not reported to MVD or your insurance company and no points are logged against your driver's license. So, if you can afford to pay the fines, you can drive just as fast as you want and nothing will ever come of it. The state pockets the money, estimated to be about 90 MILLION A YEAR.

What a scam! "In the name of public safety" my ass! The state should come out and admit that this is revenue enhancement and has absolutely nothing to do with public safety. They're gonna take your picture, mail it to you, and expect you to send them a check. It's total bullshit.

I guess in some ways, it beats the old system of having to pay the fine, then waste a day as punishment going to driving school (what a joke that is, too.) I'm surprised the driving school operators aren't lobbying and fighting the new camera scheme. Look at how much revenue they're getting cut out of!

I'm really, really, really starting to hate Arizona government. It's time for a revolution. I think I'll start it by offering to pay a bounty for anyone who takes out a photo radar camera! :lol:

[rockyptjoe]

Thanks Sub.....now ADOT (and Customs) will probably have my photo up and I'll get pulled over each time I cross! :roll: :twisted: I guess I'll just call the Customs office at Lukeville on the way home, and if ADOT is still on duty, I'll stop in Sonoyta and have something to eat!

I was somewhat disappointed in Harper's take on the issue (on the newscast)....at the end agreeing that it was partly a safety issue. If that's the case, ADOT should outlaw any fuel containers.

Also, those of you considering adding tanks in the bed of your truck, or increasing the size of your stock tank, ADOT could begin hitting you too. The ARS addresses that issue...and you are considered importing fuel if you have anything larger then a "stock" tank. Pretty soon, they'll be putting the vehicles up on the lift at the border and checking to see if you have a larger tank!

[Jeff]

Great time to start smuggling drugs, eh? LOL :lol:

[FIESTAFROG]

Im beggining to hate the US more and more! Its no longer about the people but the all mighty buck! We have short memories. Remember the tea tax?

[Jamie75]

This is total bull <WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP>. Is just our greedy ass state that is doing this or are the people of CA, NM, and TX having to deal with it too??

[Submarine]

Thanks Sub.....now ADOT (and Customs) will probably have my photo up and I'll get pulled over each time I cross! :roll: :twisted: I guess I'll just call the Customs office at Lukeville on the way home, and if ADOT is still on duty, I'll stop in Sonoyta and have something to eat!

I was somewhat disappointed in Harper's take on the issue (on the newscast)....at the end agreeing that it was partly a safety issue. If that's the case, ADOT should outlaw any fuel containers.

Also, those of you considering adding tanks in the bed of your truck, or increasing the size of your stock tank, ADOT could begin hitting you too. The ARS addresses that issue...and you are considered importing fuel if you have anything larger then a "stock" tank. Pretty soon, they'll be putting the vehicles up on the lift at the border and checking to see if you have a larger tank!
Hah! You've been a target since you started bringing that big blue fuel drum!
I didn't get to see the newscast but I was pretty disappointed too. I'm going to call that ADOT spokeswoman and ask "So since fuel containers must be D.O.T. approved, how is putting fuel in them a safety issue? And if it is, my fuel tank has a D.O.T. approval number also, so is it unsafe? Can I sue the D.O.T. for approving an unsafe fuel tank then?" If I get through I'll report the answers.

Maybe we should organize a protest where we dump our fuel if they pull us over to tax us. At ~$2/gallon I wouldn't mind dumping 10 gallons to prove a point. Then I'll take up smoking.

[Jamie75]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we allowed to bring in a certain amount of fuel from Mexico?? If ADOT is pulling this crap what's going to happen next?? Are the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms people going to start pulling us over as we cross the border and charging us taxes and surcharges on our Duty Free alcohol??

[Submarine]

Well that's the problem and I was hoping that Channel 3 would address it. Generally, you are allowed $400 in exemptions, so fuel would easily fall under that threshold. However, that's the Federal Gov'ts limit and the Constitution gives all power to control the borders to the Federal Government. So as I see it, ADOT is acting like another Port of Entry which should be illegal.

As an example, you know how Mexican's can obtain a visa or visitors permit (not sure what they call it) to legally enter the U.S. for a limited time, usually to shop or whatever. What if Arizona decided to close the State to all Mexican visitors, or to require a $2500 per person deposit or something? Imagine the outcry and chaos if each border state adopted their own entry requirements from the Mexican or Canadian border, or even California from LAX etc.

Now I see a gray area if they establish an inspection point maybe 20 miles inland or something to look for 'illegal' fuel, but using the U.S. Port of Entry, which is Federal Property, to conduct such inspections and tax collection seems like a gross violation of the Constitution.

[rockyptjoe]

Well that's the problem and I was hoping that Channel 3 would address it. Generally, you are allowed $400 in exemptions, so fuel would easily fall under that threshold. However, that's the Federal Gov'ts limit and the Constitution gives all power to control the borders to the Federal Government. So as I see it, ADOT is acting like another Port of Entry which should be illegal.

As an example, you know how Mexican's can obtain a visa or visitors permit (not sure what they call it) to legally enter the U.S. for a limited time, usually to shop or whatever. What if Arizona decided to close the State to all Mexican visitors, or to require a $2500 per person deposit or something? Imagine the outcry and chaos if each border state adopted their own entry requirements from the Mexican or Canadian border, or even California from LAX etc.

Now I see a gray area if they establish an inspection point maybe 20 miles inland or something to look for 'illegal' fuel, but using the U.S. Port of Entry, which is Federal Property, to conduct such inspections and tax collection seems like a gross violation of the Constitution.

Who wants to hire an attorney to attack the "constitutionality" of what ADOT is doing????

[Submarine]

My attorney fund is tapped out at the momemt and the ACLU is busy. :)

[AZ Miguel]

I believe that ADOT should be concerned with safety as when it comes to transporting fuel in an unsecured 55 gallon drum in the back of a half ton pickup, conducting tax collection does not resolve the safety issue. The state should operate a port of entry entering the state for commercial vehicles at Lukeville just as the do at every entry point into the state, I'm not knowledgeable as to if they already do this. However at all the other point of entries into the stat from other states it's for the purpose of commercial vehicles entering with the proper permits, base-plates, weights, and agriculture/produce inspection, not private vehicles. Again, I have no problem of an ADOT SAFETY check point but don't limit it the borders and bring them to Phoenix too.

[FIESTAFROG]

I dunno. Happy, what do you think?

[rockyptjoe]

I believe that ADOT should be concerned with safety as when it comes to transporting fuel in an unsecured 55 gallon drum in the back of a half ton pickup, conducting tax collection does not resolve the safety issue. The state should operate a port of entry entering the state for commercial vehicles at Lukeville just as the do at every entry point into the state, I'm not knowledgeable as to if they already do this. However at all the other point of entries into the stat from other states it's for the purpose of commercial vehicles entering with the proper permits, base-plates, weights, and agriculture/produce inspection, not private vehicles. Again, I have no problem of an ADOT SAFETY check point but don't limit it the borders and bring them to Phoenix too.

That is just the point....they were NOT concerned with the safety issue....not once did that subject come up in any discussion I had with the ADOT personnel on duty at Lukeville....the drum is DOT (Federal)approved....and it was well secured....it is merely a method to extract money out of private citizens! I don't know if AZ has any jurisdiction over commercial trucking operating under international agreements between Mexico, the U.S. and Canada....I believe DOT, not ADOT, should have that jurisdiction.

[Submarine]

half ton pickup? Huh. Since Joe has the Cummins diesel, with a payload capacity of 2680 lbs, I think it can more than handle one little 55 gallon drum of diesel safely.

[FIESTAFROG]

I have to do some mod's on my transfer tank so im gunna give away eighty gallons for four bucks a gallon if anyone is in queen creek. i cant hook up my feed line with all this fuel in my tank so tell your buddy's! Im in Johnson ranch....

[jerry]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/A ... Fines.html (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Mexico-Diesel-Fines.html)

Well that brand new 115 gallon diesel tank on the old Bro Dozer may have been a mistake.

What is a Bro you may ask... http://www.mrarmageddon.com/angry/bro_ho.html

[Submarine]

So they might be getting us coming and going, nice find Jerry. My 'stealth tank' might be OK though.

Mildly funny yet misinformed article on the "bro's" Jerry. I love how people assume you don't use your truck for anything but showing off. All based on someone's assessment of what you 'need'. Some even go a step further and assume you could rent a truck to fit any needs you may have, as rental trucks rarely come equipped with class 5 hitches, not to mention brake controllers. Good luck if you need a 5th wheel too.

I lifted my truck, yet, only 6" though, the minimum needed to fit my tire size of choice: 35". This choice gave me the perfect balance between ride height for necessary ground clearance yet not so tall as to limit my trailer options, require expensive re-gearing, or compromise ride comfort. Ride actually improved over the stock configuration.
Besides improving the truck's traction in sand (oftentimes not even requiring air bleed even at 50 psi), this clearance allows me to reach some of my favorite spots in Oregon and California and on the Colorado River, Mohave and Saguaro lakes with my jetskis.

Last year I didn't drive myself to Oregon for an annual beach party and instead rented a 2007 Jeep Liberty in Portland. After an 18 mile run on the sand to reach the party spot, this 'tough' Jeep had the 'check transmission' light on and was limiting speed to 10 mph. You could smell the tranny cooking when I parked it. All that for carrying 4 people! My F250 wouldn't sniff at a load of 6 people, gear, 4 jetskis plus fuel on a trailer that drags like a mud-tractor pull through the soft Oregon sand despite wider tires. I'll stick with my truck, thanks.

Usually the 'high beam' syndrome is a failure, deliberate or not, to re-aim your headlights. I don't understand that one either as it only takes a few minutes parked in front of a wall. More relavent to Arizona is the 'fog light syndrome' in which cars and trucks of all types persist on keeping their foglights on the 364 days of the year that fog is not present in the Valley.

You won't ever see some of those 'balls' on my truck, whether plastic, brass, or steel. If you have to advertise it, the truck ain't got it.

So who are these people to tell us what we 'need'? And since when do you have to qualify for a vehicle on a need basis? If someone wants to spend $50k on a truck they only 'use' for it's potential on weekends, more power to them. If I need fuel savings I'll just jump in my propane powered cop car (carpool lane approved!) or if I need to get there quick it's gear up and ride the CBR1000 (41mpg/185mph). Wait, three vehicles for one person! That's just crazy!

[jerry]

more on "The Bros" http://www.dirtopia.com/wiki/Flatbiller

Dirtopia would be great for dirt bikers that really use their toys.

[InkaRoads]

GEEEEEZ!!!!!! I envy you both all the time used to search and write about those things, forget about the "bro" and the fake balls in the trucks, just the time, just the time!!!!! :o

[jerry]

Ink it is a great day here in Bowie.In exchange for a ride to our ranch from the middle of nowhere 3 "guest" workers are cutting weeds,cleaning up the barn and washing my atv until their uncle comes to pick them up.Not sure if this is legal but what the hell.Meanwhile I'm interneting and watching our number one ranked beach volleyball team being upset by Lithuania after being jinxed by a Bush butt pat. It really is all his fault.

[Submarine]

Wow, it was all "bro's" at the Icehouse this past Spring Break. I didn't realize they had their own subspecies!

[cactusamigo]

No one has mentioned how U.S. BCI agents, or ADOT agents determine what quantity of fuel is imported, or how they determine where the fuel is purchased in the tanks of one's vehicle returning from Mexico. If one purchases fuel in AZ and adds to it in Mexico, how is the "mix" determined? What a bunch of crap! Like the amount of fuel one can carry across the border in their vehicle has a serious impact on the AZ fuel industry or seriously deprives the state of tax revenue. Give me a break! Our tax supported government agencies have their priorities twisted, on both the federal and state level. Taxpaying citizens should raise hell. The squeaking wheel gets the oil.

Meanwhile we are being overrun by illegal aliens who are costing us a fortune in government services, not to mention the cost of the illegal alien population in our prisons. DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS AND VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS (except Joe Arpaio)!

So much for the voluntary turn yourself in and self deport program for the 575,000+ illegal aliens who have received and ignored final deportation notices. So far, no takers reported by the media. We kiss the asses of foreignors who have nothing but contempt for the laws of our country and thumb their noses at us. After the offer expires Aug.22, take our state "fuel agents" and have them help our impotent federal agents round up and deport ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS, whether or not they have received "final deportation notices". It's a total disgrace that states are forced to enact illegal alien laws because the federal government refuses to enforce the existing laws that are in place and are perfectly adequate to deal with the problem.

[azbeachboy]

OMG, He's back
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/azbeachman/deargod_stop.jpg

[rockyptjoe]

No one has mentioned how U.S. BCI agents, or ADOT agents determine what quantity of fuel is imported, or how they determine where the fuel is purchased in the tanks of one's vehicle returning from Mexico. If one purchases fuel in AZ and adds to it in Mexico, how is the "mix" determined? What a bunch of crap! Like the amount of fuel one can carry across the border in their vehicle has a serious impact on the AZ fuel industry or seriously deprives the state of tax revenue. Give me a break! Our tax supported government agencies have their priorities twisted, on both the federal and state level. Taxpaying citizens should raise hell. The squeaking wheel gets the oil.



Cactusamigo.....what I was told by ADOT when I had my "affair" was that anything in separate fuel tanks/containers would be consider as fuel being imported, regardless of when or where you bought it.

[rockyptjoe]

So, does that mean that the Mexicans are going to be checking all the vehicles leaving the country too? Maybe another green light/red light system on that side of the roadway?

I can imagine what the line will look like returning to the US.....probably be all the way back to RP on busy weekends!

[Submarine]

Yeah this may be one of those "be careful what you wish for" scenarios. Spend 100 million to collect a couple hundred thousand.

Wouldn't surprise me though. I know of a guy who had AZ Dept of Revenue hounding him for a $12.50 license fee for a 'business license' for selling at a gun show. Thing is, he was only doing an informational display, not selling anything! They hounded him for months though but he didn't pay on general principle.

[cactusamigo]

rockyptjoe - Need to sort out "assumption" from fact. Need to ask the challenging agent to either cite or present a copy of the AZ statute that defines imported fuel. Some people take special racing fuel into Mexico. This fuel cannot be purchased in Mexico. It would be interesting how an ADOT agent would deal with this. Without performing a chemical analysis, they cannot determine what one is bringing back.

[FIESTAFROG]

I attached my transfer tank to my OEM tank so now it "feeds the engine". Here some pics of my work on my F250.[attachment=3:1j3rbq2l]DSC02719.JPG[/attachment:1j3rbq2l][attachment=2:1j3rbq2l]drain1.JPG[/attachment:1j3rbq2l][attachment=1:1j3rbq2l]transfer line.JPG[/attachment:1j3rbq2l][attachment=0:1j3rbq2l]DSC02710.JPG[/attachment:1j3rbq2l]

[rockyptjoe]

Cactusamigo and Fiestafrog....the applicable A.R.S. were cited earlier in this thread, or another one.....but ADOT considers anything OVER the stock tank (per the manufacturer's specifications) on your vehicle to "qualify" for taxation as imported fuel, Just because they don't zap you each time doesn't mean it doesn't fall under the stature. BTW, I don't think a state has the right to tax "imports" from a foreign country....that is the purview of the federal government!

[FIESTAFROG]

We have lost control of our government. they are going to do what they want anyways. Ive been ok twice now. I guess its just like playing the "pasa, alto" game when bringing in stuff. Ive had to pay taxes twice going in but brought stuff over 40 plus times so..... "es como es" (it is what it is)

[azbeachboy]

MEXICO CITY - A Mexican border city has begun fining U.S. drivers who cross the border to fill extra drums, tanks or barrels with government-subsidized Mexican fuel.

The city of Ciudad Acuna, across the border from Del Rio, Texas, said Friday that it fined four U.S. residents for carrying extra diesel and would impound their cars until they pay. The fines equal 70 percent of the value of the diesel confiscated.

U.S. drivers can fill up their own vehicles, but carrying extra fuel containers back across the border violates customs regulations and possibly safety rules, a report from the city said.
Mexico, one of the world's top 10 oil producers, sells diesel fuel domestically at subsidized prices of about US$2.25 per gallon, about half the U.S. price.

Mexican filling stations near the U.S. border have seen an increase in American drivers who cross over to fill up. Mexican truckers and drivers complain the run on fuel is causing temporary shortages and longer lines for them.
__________________

[Kenny]

The answer LOL...http://www.hempworld.com/Hemp-CyberFarm_com/htms/hemp-products/bio-diesel/bio-diesel.html

[cactusamigo]

Rockyptjoe - "...I don't think a state has the right to tax "imports" from a foreign country....that is the purview of the federal government!"

What you state is just one of several things states do that many feel are intrusions or duplication of federal authority, and are in violation of the Constitution, including state income tax, state drug laws, etc.

[cactusamigo]

rokyptjoe - Sorry, I missed the post citing the ARS in regard to imported fuel. This thread is rather long. If you read 28-5607, it allows import of up to 16,000 gallons of fuel per year WITHOUT A LICENSE. Because of the quantity allowed, commercial importation appears to be the intent. I think applying this statute for personal use is somewhat stretching it.

[FIESTAFROG]

rat bastard!

[rockyptjoe]

If the prices go up high enough, it might be almost safe to drive in Rocky Point....half of the drivers will be off the road since they won't be able to afford the gas!!! :roll: :roll: