Any information like this you find in Penasco is generated by Realtors and is subject to all sorts of distortions. The so called MLS is created by and managed by the local realtor's association and is not an independent organization that verifies the accuracy of their reports as in the US. It is a variant of the Point 2 system available to anyone to establish a "real estate sales company". Google it and see. Fox guarding the henhouse comes to mind. There have been several serious episodes of fraud and misuse of the so called AMPI MLS system with no action taken by the association. Reporting sales and activity is completely a voluntary system and in fact bears little resemblance to reality.
Yes, Licenses are issued in Sonora but there is little to no enforcement. You will see reference to a Broker but this is a title offered by the Real Estate agency and has no legal definition or responsibility, it is usually the named owner on the required Mexican corporation papers. AMPI has absolutely no legal position in terms of enforcement. It is mainly a fraternal organization in Mexico, used as a sales tool here in Penasco. Local realtors have created the idea that it is a Board of Realtors, US style. It is not. They have some responsibility granted by the State of Sonora to oversee the testing procedure for licensing but they do not issue licenses and do not have the power to revoke one. I am unaware of anyone ever failing to obtain a license. There still may not be an actual comprehensive test, attendance was all that was required for years. You could sleep through the sessions with no consequences. The license is used as a sales tool.
At what point a property is publicly reported as Sold is unclear and up to the realtor, there is no independent agency tracking this system or information. An agency that wants to show lots of sales may declare the property sold when a deposit check is passed. Under Contract is probably a more accurate description. The fact is the property is not actually sold and transferred until the bank trust or Fidecomiso is issued and registered, a process that can take years to complete and just one reason that bank financing is unavailable here. It may be 'hand written' at the Registry at that point. At the juncture in the process that the Notario examines and certifies the required paperwork and issues a letter of instructions to the bank the sale may be considered a legal sale for transfer.
Many so called sales never result in an actual transfer of ownership because the supporting paperwork is not available or provided to the Notario. Meanwhile the sales commission has been paid and is never refunded. In general when the Notario issues a request to the bank for a Fidecomisso, the sale is good but the bank can take years to process and issue the Fidecomisso.
Escrow means the check goes into the realtors checking account and not to a licensed, bonded independent professional agency. Actual millions of dollars have been stolen by so called Escrow Companies, Closing agents and realtors over the years. Buyers should be aware that they can and should pay all necessary fees and taxes directly not passed through a third party. This is a simple process and is risky to permit a third party to have access to these costs. The Notary will require evidence of payment but collects only their direct fees. Question the costs.
Real estate transfers in Mexico must be accomplished by a Notario who certifies that the property in fact is owned by the seller and can be, and is, legally sold and transferred by Fidecomiso or Mexican title to a specified buyer and that all legally required fees and taxes are paid. The process in NOT the same as in the US and any buyer should take the time to educate themselves about the process. Talk to the Noratio not an agent or so called Broker. Ignorance of the process has supported and created the massive fraud that has occurred over the years. Why someone would transfer huge sums of money on the basis of an unenforceable, worthless piece of paper is beyond me. They would not do it in the US but have done it here.
What does anyone know about the Casa Blanca Golf Resort?
Was it sold recently? There is no golf course? How can it be a “Golf Resort” if there is no golf course?
It's a nice resort. Building A and B are a little outdated while C and D are nice with granite counters both bedrooms have sliding doors to the patio.YES they have a mini golf course on site. Great views of Whale Hill and the ocean. Haven't heard if any one has purchased it. You've asked about builders for lots at Costa Diamonte "Diamond Beach" and how to get "sold reports" on real estate. I would suggest going down and visiting. Then start at Cholla Bay and drive thru all the beach front neighborhoods all the way to Mayan Palace....or farther to Santo Tomas and visit Jerry's neighborhood. Horace what exactly are you trying to do?
If I wanted to copy/send your response about “ using property in Mexico “ or print it, is that allowed?
Well it is a public document. I would only ask that you reference rockypointtalk.com and nothing else. Might boost members a bit here. Been real slow and it's a good resource if used.
What does anyone know about the Casa Blanca Golf Resort?
Was it sold recently? There is no golf course? How can it be a “Golf Resort” if there is no golf course?
Casa Blanca is owned by private owners of each unit. The complex itself is self governed by an owner controlled management company. The only thing for sale is E building. It is about half finished and owned by SBR I think. As far as I know, it has not been sold but there was some talk about the Esmeralda folks possibly trying to acquire it. It also has a very nice 18 hole mini golf course.
Casa Blanca is a SBR property, While building the Esmeralda and Casa Blanca, SBR was funding the construction of the Esmeralda
from funds received from sales of the Casa Blanca and visa versa.
Sadly both properties are now unfinished. I know of one construction vendor who is still owed more than $200K for his product installed.
When the Esmeralda sold he wasn't paid, guess there isn't any enforcement for a construction lien in Mexico.
What Horace Greeley wants is Esmeralda Units sold. But DaButt doesn't use the MLS so those records would only be available in whatever you have down there as a "recorder ".
Does ANYONE know anyone who was an original buyer in Esmeralda with Gus? We desperately want to know what is being done about that contract. What Daniel is offering them. Butterfield claims over 122 unfinished units are under contract, and these would be those contracts. Investors are trying to get this claim (and his claim that HE has sold 150 units) including in the fraud charges by the corporation commission. If you know anyone, you can PM me. Thanks
Then why doesn’t Horace Greely just “spit it out” and ask what he really wants to know. Instead of asking about sold reports and land in Costa Diamonte. All property / tax records are held at:
Municipio De Puerto Penasco Tesoreria Municipal. Blvd Benito Juarez y Blvd Fremont.
You just need to go in there with an address or name and they can pull up all that information.
So......Seahorse,
I want to know if Esmeralda is selling condos? I want to know If Daniel Butterfield is really in charge of the “revitalization” of Rocky Point. He claims , over and over again, he has the “vision”....
Is there a “revitalization ”occurring in Rocky Point? Unfinished projects coming back to life?
How’s the Port coming along?
And........another question:
How expensive is power and water and sewer? How is that handled?
I do not own property in Mexico and I just got to thinking of the added costs of condo ownership.
What is property tax $$?
The last time I made it down, we were across from JJ’s and had water delivered and dumped into a cistern on the roof. We shared the water in more ways than you can imagine.
What Horace Greeley wants is Esmeralda Units sold. But DaButt doesn't use the MLS so those records would only be available in whatever you have down there as a "recorder ".
Does ANYONE know anyone who was an original buyer in Esmeralda with Gus? We desperately want to know what is being done about that contract. What Daniel is offering them. Butterfield claims over 122 unfinished units are under contract, and these would be those contracts. Investors are trying to get this claim (and his claim that HE has sold 150 units) including in the fraud charges by the corporation commission. If you know anyone, you can PM me. Thanks
Hi Grammanan, I think what you are missing is the original owners interests and yours aren't necessarily the same.I know one that believes this "irrationally optimistic" new money will help them in their actions.Be sure to protect your investment as the properties owned by individuals will be the low hanging fruit in their case.
Thank you Horace! Not sure if Esmeralda is selling condos. If so it would be done internally with Esmerala sales, not with an outside realtor. Not sure why you think he is in charge of “revitalization” of Rocky Point. There is growth going on...a new movie theater to start construction near Sam’s Club, the rebirth and remodel of Manny’s Beach Club, the Malecon continues to have remodels and fresh paint. Seeing a lot of new construction homes every where. New restaurants are opening up all over town. On the down side South Side Jillz closed as Jill headed to Ensenada to operate a bar there. They are still projecting the home port for 2020. There is a Puerto Penasco home port facebook page for updates on the port. Power, water and sewer. CFE is the electric company. The bill comes out every 2 months. Mine for a 1400 sq ft, 2 bed, 2 bath home is between $50 & $90 for 2 months. I have 3 mini splits. I run the kitchen and living room all the time, turn the master bedroom on a half hour or so before bed and only run the guest bedroom when I have guests. My water ‘desalination plant’ and sewer is part of my HOA. A majority of people have water delivered. My property tax is about $100 per year, but I pay in January to get the discount, so it is really around $80 per year. Then there is the Bank Trust that is paid annually. Mine is $500 per yr. this summer has been the busiest I have ever seen Rocky Point. It seemed like Spring Break never ended. Most condos were reporting near 100% occupancy all summer. In my neighborhood all the rental houses were booked solid. My neighbor has her house in the rental pool and said she was making $6,000 per month, so I think the economy is doing well.
Seahorse,
Very informative. I am surprised that it is so inexpensive. However, you have control over many “moving parts”. Certainly much cheaper than in Phoenix. It would be interesting to know what the utilities are in the condo world.
I will look at the Port Facebook page. Thank-you for that info.
The reason why I am of the impression that Daniel is “large and in charge”, he is constantly reminding anyone who will listen that he is going to make things better for everyone in RP. Especially the employees of “Collins”, he feels he owes them . Going to help set up a retirement plan for them.
I had also heard that Marriott has property directly north of the proposed port. It is to commence construction shortly. I have researched the Marriott International and they have nothing indicating a new hotel is planned for Puerto Penasco. They do show a new hotel in Rocky Point, Tampa Bay , Florida. Wonder if someone misunderstood the information they saw.
I suppose it is all very exciting to see “little Rocky Point” growing up?
Stuart,
Brylcreem Boy is not gone, not by a long shot!
He just has to lay low while he sorts stuff out. He has a few issues to deal with and then he will back......
Lucky Rocky Point!
Jerry,
Can you explain your response a little better?
I understand there are 2 different issues that have to be addressed. Both by Mr. Brylcreem, himself.
But , I don’t understand the “low hanging fruit” part.
I had also heard that Marriott has property directly north of the proposed port. It is to commence construction shortly. I have researched the Marriott International and they have nothing indicating a new hotel is planned for Puerto Penasco. They do show a new hotel in Rocky Point, Tampa Bay , Florida. Wonder if someone misunderstood the information they saw.
I suppose it is all very exciting to see “little Rocky Point” growing up?
There was a Marriot planned, was a sign up and even some dirt work. It just disappeared when things crashed here. Might still be on the books somewhere but I have not heard anything. Realistically , assuming things continue to improve, it's probably a good time. There is only one large hotel and definitely more people there.
No it is not exciting to me . Was a fairly nice place to live but now it's party central almost every weekend, crazy drivers and drunks. Living in a resort town has it own set of issues for residents. I'd move if my situation in life wee different.
The three stalled condos in Las Conchas all show signs of life. One is actively selling and there are people in there, another is actively undergoing repairs, painting, etc and the third, closest to the guard shack, has a slight pulse of activity. This will have an enormous impact on the adjacent streets, homes and beach.
Move to Miramar, we were the only people on the beach last weekend- nice and quiet like we like it. We can drive to town if we want, go to crazyville (the condos), but escape to peace and quiet.
Move to Miramar, we were the only people on the beach last weekend- nice and quiet like we like it. We can drive to town if we want, go to crazyville (the condos), but escape to peace and quiet.
Move to Miramar, we were the only people on the beach last weekend- nice and quiet like we like it. We can drive to town if we want, go to crazyville (the condos), but escape to peace and quiet.
Yes, Broken. Just west of Mayan. Thanks, Miramar, for ruining the secret. :)
SB, Thx. We were there over 20 years ago riding our quads up and down the beach a few times,
That area is so nice like most of the beaches from Encanto to Santo Tomas.
That was the fuel range of our ATV's riding from Cholla and back and refilling in RP before going to home to Cholla.
I bet ATV's are a No NO on that beach today, like most places.
SB, Thx. We were there over 20 years ago riding our quads up and down the beach a few times,
That area is so nice like most of the beaches from Encanto to Santo Tomas.
That was the fuel range of our ATV's riding from Cholla and back and refilling in RP before going to home to Cholla.
I bet ATV's are a No NO on that beach today, like most places.
ATVs are a no-no on Encanto, Dorada and Miramar. But there are back roads that accommodate ATV's through at least part of the stretch. (Well, at least there were about 20 years ago when I joined an ATV caravan to the Ostionera.)
Until Encanto and Playa La Jolla started growing during the early 90's, we could ride from the estuary where the oyster farms are to where the Mayan is now.
As soon as Playa La Jolla went in we were chased off of the beach by security guards on ATV's. Then we started going north past Black Mtn.
well, Laguna Shores went in, No more beach trips there.
Have only driven to Encanto in our SUV to visit the nice beaches for a day trip.
Times have changed but I (my butt) really doesn't miss being on an ATV for 30 miles of travel anymore. ;)
Jerry,
Can you explain your response a little better?
I understand there are 2 different issues that have to be addressed. Both by Mr. Brylcreem, himself.
But , I don’t understand the “low hanging fruit” part.
Thank you Horace! Not sure if Esmeralda is selling condos. If so it would be done internally with Esmerala sales, not with an outside realtor. Not sure why you think he is in charge of “revitalization” of Rocky Point. There is growth going on...a new movie theater to start construction near Sam’s Club, the rebirth and remodel of Manny’s Beach Club, the Malecon continues to have remodels and fresh paint. Seeing a lot of new construction homes every where. New restaurants are opening up all over town. On the down side South Side Jillz closed as Jill headed to Ensenada to operate a bar there. They are still projecting the home port for 2020. There is a Puerto Penasco home port facebook page for updates on the port. Power, water and sewer. CFE is the electric company. The bill comes out every 2 months. Mine for a 1400 sq ft, 2 bed, 2 bath home is between $50 & $90 for 2 months. I have 3 mini splits. I run the kitchen and living room all the time, turn the master bedroom on a half hour or so before bed and only run the guest bedroom when I have guests. My water ‘desalination plant’ and sewer is part of my HOA. A majority of people have water delivered. My property tax is about $100 per year, but I pay in January to get the discount, so it is really around $80 per year. Then there is the Bank Trust that is paid annually. Mine is $500 per yr. this summer has been the busiest I have ever seen Rocky Point. It seemed like Spring Break never ended. Most condos were reporting near 100% occupancy all summer. In my neighborhood all the rental houses were booked solid. My neighbor has her house in the rental pool and said she was making $6,000 per month, so I think the economy is doing well.
Well speaking as a fellow owner of multiple Sonoran properties,land and soon a damn gold mine I would not bet on that flawed El HomePort to get finished by 2020.The pause in the drug war is just that (still good news),the water issues are compounded with each newbie,the deported are increasing and ending in areas like ours and the relationship with the USA is at a really tricky spot.....a roll of the dice...
Jerry,
Do you not also consider the newly elected “El Presidente” a possible wild card in the renewed economic upswing?
The “Home Port” could become a casualty of the administration’s economic outlook. I (also) do not see crusing the “Baja” high on many travelers lists. Why would you depart from such a “small place” for a long cruise? Granted, I do not have a clear picture of what one might see or the reason why people actually cruise , I do not go on cruises.
Have you actually noticed an influx of individuals that are being turned back from the US border?
Jerry,
Do you not also consider the newly elected “El Presidente” a possible wild card in the renewed economic upswing?
The “Home Port” could become a casualty of the administration’s economic outlook. I (also) do not see crusing the “Baja” high on many travelers lists. Why would you depart from such a “small place” for a long cruise? Granted, I do not have a clear picture of what one might see or the reason why people actually cruise , I do not go on cruises.
Have you actually noticed an influx of individuals that are being turned back from the US border?
All along the border the numbers of deported and stuck without the proper papers to work in Mexico are way up.I see them in Y Griega more often now.They undercut the locals...work for food basically until established.
The word on the “Home Port” has dropped off. Is there anything happening at all?
I also wonder if part of the plan is to dredge out part of the bay(?) to accommodate the ships? If my memory and observation serves me, it is fairly shallow.
Someone is still in Rocky Point, enjoying life, drinking bloody Mary's like he owns the place. Snapped this yesterday. Must be nice to have lots of OPM (other people's money).
Just sayin'... the Brylcreem still seems to be thing.
Well , He better enjoy it while he can...............where was he “sucking it up”? at what time of the day? Was he by himself?
Did he know you took his pic? Was he being civil?
Have you had any dealings with Mr. Butterfield?
No, I sneaked snapped that pic while I was talking with the owner of Collins, whom I've known for for decades. Didn't even realize Brylcreem was there until he sushed me and pointed out he had just walked in and was sitting behind me. I had just mentioned this thread to him.
Hey, we all deserve happiness... but I was very surprised he isn't wearing handcuffs.
No, I sneaked snapped that pic while I was talking with the owner of Collins, whom I've known for for decades. Didn't even realize Brylcreem was there until he sushed me and pointed out he had just walked in and was sitting behind me. I had just mentioned this thread to him.
Hey, we all deserve happiness... but I was very surprised he isn't wearing handcuffs.
Meh. What the hell do I know.
It may well happen someday. Time will surely tell.
I bought at the Villages. My lots was paid for and my money went to build someone else house. I can't even get a deed to the lot I paid for. If it ain't built do not buy it.
There are many signs on the resort road advertising Esmerlda units for sale.
On Friday I saw about 25 cars in the fenced off parking lots for workers
I wonder how he is able to pay them? Expected (at least he has said it was coming) construction loan may have finally come in. There has been no confirmation that there are any COMPLETED units for sale.
So.. the new year is upon us and I am wondering what observations are obvious for the Esmeralda ?
We are told there are 2 condo sales.
Does anyone know anyfhi g ?
I wonder how he is able to pay them? Expected (at least he has said it was coming) construction loan may have finally come in. There has been no confirmation that there are any COMPLETED units for sale.
He is not really paying them the full wages always short and with the excuse that "next paycheck will have the unpaid balance, a guy I know was force to quit and now waiting for wages payment, once a scammer always a scammer!!
I know there has been talk about building your own home vs. buying.
What is the system for building privately?
Do You need a “general contractor”? Is that person required to be licensed and bonded, for as far as that goes? Does that exist? Are the trades (electrician, plumber, framers, etc) skilled or locals? Good friends of the contractor you hired? Is there an inspector/inspection that occurs after each trade finishes? And COO issued prior to completion?
Any protection offered to you as the owner/builder? Or am I too entrenched in the US building laws?
Or
pure Luck ?
(Note to admin: this could probably be moved to a new topic thread "How to build in MX")
Here is a very helpful writeup on the construction process in Mexico: http://www.forsaleinbaja.com/build-in-baja.-plans--architects.html
Just like in the US, you can do a lot of work DIY, but if you want it all to be "on the books" when you sell the property, you will need to go through the official construction process with a DRO as described in the above article.
I am fairly certain that most construction in Mexico does not go through the official process and a lot of the construction is not done with proper paperwork. In my own experience with Mexican construction, the weakest areas are electrical and plumbing. Interestingly, this trade is combined down here as both are done by the same trades person. I have seen many terrible and unsafe things done with electrical here. There are house fires here, which is odd since they are mostly concrete, I can only assume the number one cause is electrical fires. On the plumbing side, proper venting of waste lines if an unknown concept here (as your nose will tell you in most buildings). A lot of times you end up with a tradesman who says "yes, yes, yes" when you ask if they know how to do something but in reality they have never done it before, they just want the job and will figure it out as they go.
Of course there are tradesman in Mexico who are very skilled and know what they are doing, but you may have a trial and error process to find the right people. The golden rule of "you get what you pay for" applies here.
In my opinion, if you are unfamiliar with proper construction techniques, I would not suggest building something new on your own in Mexico. You may end up with a building that looks great but buried in the walls are plumbing and electrical nightmares waiting to show up down the road. If you do embark on your own construction project, it would be helpful to be onsite as often as possible to observe how things are put together so hopefully issues are caught before they are hidden.
We have successfully built and sold homes here in Mexico, our tradesmen are fully trained and they do the job the right way so those buried in the wall problems don't exist look at Mexicosis to learn more
This week begins the “spring onslaught” to Sandy Beach, I guess will last well into April this year. Just how crazy does it get? If you are in the “condo row”, does it get to be , just too much with drinking and masses of people? Are you better off going down the beach farther to where there are homes instead? How is the traffic in and out of RP?
This week begins the “spring onslaught” to Sandy Beach, I guess will last well into April this year. Just how crazy does it get? If you are in the “condo row”, does it get to be , just too much with drinking and masses of people? Are you better off going down the beach farther to where there are homes instead? How is the traffic in and out of RP?
The noise, people and traffic are horrible. We leave town for the entire month of March. Drunk idiots everywhere.
We will have to wait for the full story, but it appears to be an action by the Esmeralda HOA members who have been unhappy with Brylcreem Boy as their president. They are just ousting him I think.
So, really fun stuff has happened to Esmeralda. Daniel has been removed from the ownership and some of the people who were owed money have seized it from him. At least that is “kinda” the story we have gathered.
Meanwhile , in Phoenix, Daniel and IPX have gotten a rude comeuppance from the AZCC. Not yet finalized. You can look it up on the Corporation website. Daniel really knows how to keep real estate interesting. Never dull.
Has anyone heard any other chatter in the bars?
xxxxxxxx New Developer is Nick Najera, and he is doing great things here. We are alive and well, stop in and see the high quality units available.
xxxxxxxxxxxx No more Butterfield? I thought Nick and Daniel were partners.
Hide or report this
xxxxx Daniel has been removed from the project and no longer part of this development. In my opinion Nick wasn't happy with his antics and lack of integrity per a few discussions.
he is doing great things here. We are alive and well, stop in and see the high quality units available.
It sounds like you own a condo at Esmeralda. ?? There is a big back story here ...... all about why/how Butterfield is no longer a partner, and how is is waging a legal battle against Najero et al who now have control.
Newspaper Front
4 hrs Overturning leaves a deceased American man in Puerto Peñasco
* The events occurred early today on the Costa Diamante boulevard, access to highway tera to the Gulf of Santa Clara
A man identified as Daniel Christopher Butterfield, 46, died after he dumped his vehicle on the Costa Diamante boulevard (at the height of the wind fan), recorded on the morning of Friday, January 10.
It was around 1:42 a.m. when the mishap was reported, with Red Cross element coming from this port.
Upon arrival, the paramedics found the man, apparently the only passenger on board, 8 meters from the vehicle, a unit that was also 10 meters away from the asphalt belt.
Still alive, the injured man was transferred to a private clinic in the city, where he eventually died after not supporting the injuries caused by the accident.
Live fast, die hard. I imagine the toxicology report would be interesting and pretty obvious he wasn't wearing a seat belt to be thrown from the vehicle in such fashion. RIP Daniel Butterfield.
