Having a little discussion about whether the Halibut we catch in the bay's this time of year is actually a Flounder.
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Halibut or Flounder.
Started by Kenny · Dec 2, 2019 · 28 replies
Officially it is known as a Cortez Halibut which is a member of the Sand Flounder family, known as lenguados areneros in Mexico.
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Gringos call it a Floundibut
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Spending my early years fishing the south shore of Long Island New York, the Cortez Halibut reminds me more of what we called Fluke. We fished for those in the summer months by drifting our boat with the current in the bays, inlets, and just offshore the ocean using either squid strips or small fish like killies or spearing along the bottom. Some of the Fluke hook rigs were adorned with white bucktails, but I never found them any more effective in catching fish. They were also known as Summer Flounder to us.
Columbus Day was our unofficial start to the Winter Flounder season. These fish were smaller than Fluke with a different mouth which was much smaller but thicker lipped, and teeth nothing like the Halibut or Fluke. It was more of a mouth that sucked in their food rather than the biting mouth of the Fluke. Fishing for them was by anchoring our boat in known holes in the channels of the inshore bays with longer, smaller "flounder" hook rigs, often adorned by the manufacturer with plastic red beads or yellow plastic corn kernels. The bait used for these fish were either sections of live bloodworms, sandworms, or strips of Little Neck or Cherrystone clams. We would chum first at the hole, using the contents of a can of corn kernels wrapped in a paper bag or newspapers tied to a line that we lowered down slowly and once it hit bottom we would give it a good tug or two to release the corn. This seemed to attract the flounder toward the fishing hole. Although the conditions for fishing these Winter Flounder was usually very cold and miserable, it was rewarding in that they tasted better than Fluke IMO.
Columbus Day was our unofficial start to the Winter Flounder season. These fish were smaller than Fluke with a different mouth which was much smaller but thicker lipped, and teeth nothing like the Halibut or Fluke. It was more of a mouth that sucked in their food rather than the biting mouth of the Fluke. Fishing for them was by anchoring our boat in known holes in the channels of the inshore bays with longer, smaller "flounder" hook rigs, often adorned by the manufacturer with plastic red beads or yellow plastic corn kernels. The bait used for these fish were either sections of live bloodworms, sandworms, or strips of Little Neck or Cherrystone clams. We would chum first at the hole, using the contents of a can of corn kernels wrapped in a paper bag or newspapers tied to a line that we lowered down slowly and once it hit bottom we would give it a good tug or two to release the corn. This seemed to attract the flounder toward the fishing hole. Although the conditions for fishing these Winter Flounder was usually very cold and miserable, it was rewarding in that they tasted better than Fluke IMO.
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Excellent discussion and thank you for the info. In a perfect world, this is what we will be discussing 24/7 :0)
Cortez Halibut - I had to look that up, and it sure looks like the ones we saw on the beach a week ago. A couple local fishermen were casting a net - and had a nice bucket of fish. Also had some corvina (I think), at least looked like them. Wife ended up buying 2 of the Cortez Halibut and one corvina for $10 USD - seemed fair enough.
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joester said:Cortez Halibut - I had to look that up, and it sure looks like the ones we saw on the beach a week ago. A couple local fishermen were casting a net - and had a nice bucket of fish. Also had some corvina (I think), at least looked like them. Wife ended up buying 2 of the Cortez Halibut and one corvina for $10 USD - seemed fair enough.
Hi Joe, It seems fair enough.
From the time I first started going down Cholla Bay as a kid in 58, that particular fish in these waters was called a Halibut by everyone I knew. I just hope these Flounder that everyone seems to be catching these days isn't an invasive species.;)
I ran into this on a search. I've never seen anything like it. https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/groups/flounder?q=Flounder
Kenny said:Having a little discussion about whether the Halibut we catch in the bay's this time of year is actually a Flounder.
Two different in Rocky Point. Both Halibut by name. The Cortez Halibut and the California Halibut.
https://mexfish.com/fish/fish.htm
Tight Lines!!!!!!! Dreaming of some BIG OLLL BUTS!!!!!!!!!
Mexico Joe said:Two different in Rocky Point. Both Halibut by name. The Cortez Halibut and the California Halibut.
https://mexfish.com/fish/fish.htm
I know the California Halibut well, having caught and speared many in my years living in S Cali, but I can't say I've ever caught one in the Sea of Cortez, though I know they're around somewhere. I'd guess they would be more on the peninsula side. Maybe some of the big Halibut that Ric I caught on the 51 was, but I just called them big.
.
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Kenny said:
I read somewhere that the Cortez Halibut only grow to the 5lb range if I remember correctly. I think all the big ones that you guys catch out deep and those in Ric's pics are California Halibut. They are the big guys to my understanding.
Mexico Joe said:I read somewhere that the Cortez Halibut only grow to the 5lb range if I remember correctly. I think all the big ones that you guys catch out deep and those in Ric's pics are California Halibut. They are the big guys to my understanding.
Ric's an expert on holding fish just right for pictures and having taken that picture, I can honestly say they were big, but not as big as they look in the picture. I know they must overlap, but if you look closely at the ones in the picture, their marking are very similar to the ones we catch on the flats this time of year, but their markings aren't as vivid or bright as the youngsters... "The little known Cortez halibut exists only in the Gulf of California (also known as the Sea of Cortez). Reaching up to 3 feet and 50 pounds, it is the largest flatfish in the Gulf of California and common near shore during cold water months."
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Halibuts are the big boys we catch out at the deep reefs. The smaller ones caught near shore are fluke, or flounder. Both are yummy!
Had an interesting conversation awhile back with someone that insisted all halibut are left-eyed and flounder are right-eyed. Bull pucky! Proceeded to post a picture of my son holding two nice halibut from the 51... one left-eyed and one right-eyed. Identical fish otherwise.
The things people believe. Meh!
Had an interesting conversation awhile back with someone that insisted all halibut are left-eyed and flounder are right-eyed. Bull pucky! Proceeded to post a picture of my son holding two nice halibut from the 51... one left-eyed and one right-eyed. Identical fish otherwise.
The things people believe. Meh!
Kenny said:Ric's an expert on holding fish just right for pictures and having taken that picture, I can honestly say they were big, but not as big as they look in the picture. I know they must overlap, but if you look closely at the ones in the picture, their marking are very similar to the ones we catch on the flats this time of year, but their markings aren't as vivid or bright as the youngsters... "The little known Cortez halibut exists only in the Gulf of California (also known as the Sea of Cortez). Reaching up to 3 feet and 50 pounds, it is the largest flatfish in the Gulf of California and common near shore during cold water months."
I stand corrected sir.
Mexico Joe said:I stand corrected sir.
Naw, a lot of people just call any flatfish they pull out of the Sea of Cortez, the name of the one's they caught wherever.
This is a very fishey thread !! This happens when Kenny and Joe get together !! As Kenny says "All fishermen are liars but you and me and I am not too sure about you !!! That's the half f of lies that may be true. Ja ja ja ja
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Grew up just the same but fishing the north shore from Oyster Bay to Smithtown. Many a summer day and night fishing all the docks and shoreline around Huntington Harbor and Huntington Bay as a kid. Mostly caught flounder from shore but would go out on the Noli Eileen or Capt. James for fluke every once in a while. Fluke were a much better fight and much better eating in my opinion. I absolutely HATED bloodworms though. They worked well but are nasty lil buggers with those pinchers. Being put in a tub of them would be my worst nightmare lol. Tons of snapper (what we called baby Bluefish) back then too (mid/late 80s-early 90s). I still go back a few times a year to visit family and friends and no matter what the weather or time of day/night I take one or more of the party boats out of Captree for Stripers or Seabass. They’re changing the regs for Stripers soon to help the population. Recreational fishing for them isn’t the problem, it’s the purse seine trawlers scooping up all the bunker (menhaden) off the Carolinas (#1 baitfish for Stripers and Blues) that’s decimating the populations. Started in the 90s and got heavier in the 00s. I will not buy fish oil pills because of that once I learned that’s where the oil is coming from. I used to love watching the schools of Bunker do their happy dance then freak out then the Blues would round them up. But the schools I see now are much smaller and fewer in between it seems.
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Ah, the old bunker chum pot. They were very oily fish and stunk! Yep, did that for our summer Bluefishing out of Jones inlet over the Cholera Grounds.
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My favorite fishing was in the small streams in the Adirondack Mts. of upper NY. Only small native trout. Light spinning equipment. Two mile hike to the favorite area. Try to catch a grub fish first. Cut out the gullet for bait. Sneak slowly and quietly over marshy areas to the edge of the stream. These fish are extremely wary. Flip the bait upstream above a pool so the bait would float down with the current. If you were careful, and there was a trout lurking there, and there usually was cause few would take the two mile hike in, they would hit it and give you a nice vigorous fight. We would quit when we had enough for a dinner and set up camp and cook them for dinner. Nothing quite like fresh native trout over an open fire in the woods. Lots of fun unless the blackflies were active !
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Roberto said:My favorite fishing was in the small streams in the Adirondack Mts. of upper NY. Only small native trout. Light spinning equipment. Two mile hike to the favorite area. Try to catch a grub fish first. Cut out the gullet for bait. Sneak slowly and quietly over marshy areas to the edge of the stream. These fish are extremely wary. Flip the bait upstream above a pool so the bait would float down with the current. If you were careful, and there was a trout lurking there, and there usually was cause few would take the two mile hike in, they would hit it and give you a nice vigorous fight. We would quit when we had enough for a dinner and set up camp and cook them for dinner. Nothing quite like fresh native trout over an open fire in the woods. Lots of fun unless the blackflies were active !
I love that kind of fishing. Watch your shadow.
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Roberto -
I grew up in upstate NY, went to school at Paul Smiths. Spent many days and nights in the thick of the blackflies, still have fond memories of Fulton Chain of Lakes, especially 4th lake. Trout fishing everywhere. Summer nights at the Old Barn in Inlet, live music on the weekends - good times.
I grew up in upstate NY, went to school at Paul Smiths. Spent many days and nights in the thick of the blackflies, still have fond memories of Fulton Chain of Lakes, especially 4th lake. Trout fishing everywhere. Summer nights at the Old Barn in Inlet, live music on the weekends - good times.
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I went out on the St Lawrence one cold winter day to fish with an old native lumberjack neighbor. He cut a hole with his chain saw. I shivered !! the wind was whipping us pretty good. He fooled around in a sack for a few minutes then announced he forgot the bait !!!
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Alexandria Bay was our favorite place on the river - Kring Point state park. Fishing and water skiing in Goose Bay. Funny how I ended up loving the salt water and Pacific Ocean after growing up there.
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joester said:Roberto -
I grew up in upstate NY, went to school at Paul Smiths. Spent many days and nights in the thick of the blackflies, still have fond memories of Fulton Chain of Lakes, especially 4th lake. Trout fishing everywhere. Summer nights at the Old Barn in Inlet, live music on the weekends - good times.
I went to Oneonta. Chose that over Potsdam, ESF, Paul Smith because several of my high school mates went there. Every now and again I look up Paul Smith to see what’s going on. It seemed it was close to going under a few years ago with a debacle about some millionaire donor and wanting to change the name. Beautiful underrated school.
Roberto said:My favorite fishing was in the small streams in the Adirondack Mts. of upper NY. Only small native trout. Light spinning equipment. Two mile hike to the favorite area. Try to catch a grub fish first. Cut out the gullet for bait. Sneak slowly and quietly over marshy areas to the edge of the stream. These fish are extremely wary. Flip the bait upstream above a pool so the bait would float down with the current. If you were careful, and there was a trout lurking there, and there usually was cause few would take the two mile hike in, they would hit it and give you a nice vigorous fight. We would quit when we had enough for a dinner and set up camp and cook them for dinner. Nothing quite like fresh native trout over an open fire in the woods. Lots of fun unless the blackflies were active !
I used to fish the Oriskany Creek behind my uncle’s house in Clinton as a kid. Oneida and Delta lakes too. Taught me how to fly fish. Only caught one trout but tons of blue gills in the lakes. I loved going upstate as a kid.
mondone said:Ah, the old bunker chum pot. They were very oily fish and stunk! Yep, did that for our summer Bluefishing out of Jones inlet over the Cholera Grounds.
LOL. It was bad there for years. The water’s been cleaned up now. So they say ;)
the brown trout in Oriskany Creek were a blast to catch and eat - never thought I'd see it mentioned here....
I could bike ride to that creek from our home, and often did. We have to drive a bit here in Az to reach decent creeks and streams, but still fun and
delicious eating fresh caught stream trout.
I could bike ride to that creek from our home, and often did. We have to drive a bit here in Az to reach decent creeks and streams, but still fun and
delicious eating fresh caught stream trout.
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Cool to see some upstate NY love. I grew up on one of the finger lakes and family is still there. Huge lake trout and brown trout, with rainbows in the creeks. Always nice pulling slob perch, walleye and northern pike up through the ice too. It looks like a bunch of us traded lake effect snow for az sun and warm ocean breeze down south.
Did most of my freshwater fishing back in the day on Glen Lake in the Adirondacks.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B021'54.7%22N+73%C2%B040'46.7%22W/@43.365203,-73.679644,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d43.365203!4d-73.679644?hl=en-US
https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B021'54.7%22N+73%C2%B040'46.7%22W/@43.365203,-73.679644,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d43.365203!4d-73.679644?hl=en-US
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Been Lucky in life to be owners in Las Conchas for 2 years. I haven’t been bitten by the salt water fishing bug as of yet. I do all of my fresh water fishing on Lake of the Woods Ontario. Suppose I should start hanging out at the local tackle shop and see what I can learn.