Has anyone heard any updates on Las Palomas? We heard one rumor that something is happening within the next week or so - financially. Have a friend who put a lot of money down a few years ago and has been in limbo since then.
Sounds like they had an HOA meeting this past weekend and things don't look good. Lot's of finger pointing about bills not
being paid and such.
Glad I don't own there.
Yes, I work for the Sonorans and am probably not completely neutral but I can say that all of the Sonorans HOA's have a surplus and are doing fine. IMHO, they are the most stable resorts group out there right now. Just look at all the unfinished projects just sitting still. The Sky finished construction in the fall of 2007. They had already known that hard times were coming but still delivered a completed project as promised.
Any idea how many sold units at Las Palomas? If the HOA is in debt, doesn't that mean the individual owners are liable for that debt? Guess one would have to see teh CC&Rs. Any Las Palomas owners on the forum?
OK the link didn't go directly to the article. Just scroll down to "WORK IN THE PIGEON PROBLEM ABOUT TO EXPLODE " Again a bad translation of the headline. Palomas is Pigeons in Spanish... What an open door for Happy ;/
Looks like the owners will be forced to kick in 20k each as a last resort...hmmmmm The last Resort might be a good name for the place (Pigeon Coop another strong contender) if they can force this Miskin character out.
Any one remember not to long ago the union issues at Las Conchas They tried to strong hold the community It cost money but they got of the union contract
Las Palomas is in big trouble. Most of the rental employees were laid off and they have not received their pay. Some owners considering walking away and cutting their loses. The people that are officers of the HOA won't even keep their members informed as to what is going on with their money. The owners in the rental pool are owed over a $100,000,000.00 USD in back rent. Doen't look like they will ever get it. This resort is giving all of PP a bad name.
I think you have 3 extra zeros in there...pretty sad...we love to kid them on the forum but like them too...
RPG1477 said:
Las Palomas is in big trouble. Most of the rental employees were laid off and they have not received their pay. Some owners considering walking away and cutting their loses. The people that are officers of the HOA won't even keep their members informed as to what is going on with their money. The owners in the rental pool are owed over a $100,000,000.00 USD in back rent. Doen't look like they will ever get it. This resort is giving all of PP a bad name.
union (representing the employees) made an agreement with the owners of the resort, thus the issue of back pay or current pay of employees has been resolved.
many of the employees were laid off because it was slow season, many have been re-hired and more will be added as the season gets under way.
members of the hoa don't speak for the rental company, thus they can't really provide info on this subject. they represent the hoa of the resort not the for profit side.
I believe the amount owed to owners is closer to 400k not 100m or 1m.
it appears that the resort will start paying owners rental income moving forward (I guess we will see, however now that it is in season it may be possible).
I believe the HOA is also owed $2 million plus dollars from money that was diverted from the HOA to the profit side. Has the resort also made an agreement with the owners to resolve the HOA deficiency?
The Las Palomas HOA is not in trouble. The HOA is a non-profit assocation funded by the monthly fees that the condo owners pay and the vast majority of those fees are up to date. All of the HOA services are being provided (security guards, exterior maintenance, cleaning of the common areas, pools, common utility bills, etc.). So anyone that wants to go to Las Palomas please be assured that they can enjoy their stay in safety.
The rumors you hear are for the rental operations side of the business that WWG owns. There are problems there and there have been cuts and changes. This affects the retail operations only, such as the restaurants, pool bars, and rental operation. They are trying to fix their problems, but until then, there may be limited food and beverage availability during off-peak days (our understanding is that there should be full service for spring break).
So the only advice I would give someone considering a trip to Las Palomas is to bring pool towels, small coolers to bring your drinks to the pool (the rules are that they have to fit under the chaise lounges), and plan to cook in your condo or eat out. The restaurants and bars will probably be open, but better to be prepared rather than be surprised. There are plenty of reputable condo owners on www.vrbo.com - choose one that is part of rental pool management to avoid problems or complications and ensure that the condo meets Las Palomas standards.
Time to let go of it . There is no rental pool management. You cannot enforce one side of an agreement in default.They don't even answer the phone.Rent from whoever has the best price, if they have paid their hoa dues they have paid for the amenities.the surveillance comittee is now aligned with WWG.
Sounds like the Secret Squirrels (tourist committee members) got paid what they were owed by Hector and now want everyone to get back on for another ride with WWG.
Amazing that the rental owners at LP allow themselves to be bullied into having no other options than WWG. There has been a long running witch hunt from the tourist committee to stop owners from renting their own units and now all owners who have guests are under suspicion. One owner I know over there lent their unit to a co-worker for $50 a night to cover expenses and was then hit with a 35% rack rate charge from the resort. They have been fighting that charge for over 4 months with no success.
"lending their unit to a co-worker for $50 / night" is renting, and is in violation of the rental agreement. More importantly, it hurts the resort. My guess is that the owner had a history of under the table guest of owners.
Your guess is wrong. This person had no rental agreement and sometimes lends her condo to friends. Beautiful unit, just sits empty 90% of the year and the owner feels better when it gets some usage on her monthly HOA fee. Hard to see your point how she "hurts the resort".
So............... WWG ,having run out of gringo money to steal,decides to steal the same money twice by claiming ownership of what they weren't going to pay back the first time.
So....how did WWG know that she was paid $50 a night?
I think LP asks guests at check-in if they have paid anything. I guess the owner/guest fell into the WWG trap not thinking they were doing anything wrong.
It takes a little effort to get into that cheatin' stealin' frame of mind that comes so easily to WWG. As one of our presidents once said, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice..............won't get fooled again.it's incomprehensible why anyone would encourage an owner to play ball with WWG.
We're coming to the end of our 6 month long term lease at Las Palomas, and I have to admit that after going there for the last 3 years, it was extremely disappointing on a few levels.
There was no Food or Beverage Service at all for the last two months! I couldn't believe that even the Owners' Meeting in January couldn't get a Pool Bar open for the 400 people that were there that weekend. They were all still closed as of Sunday, 03-06-11. I really hope that's changed by now.
Housekeepers and Food & Beverage people didn't get paid for two-four weeks, and when they did get paid, it was half of what they were supposed to be paid. The owners took up a collection and were able to pay quite a few of them (mostly Housekeepers), a little more than $50. The final kick in the head was when 175 employees were let go after all that. We visited 8-14 days for each of the last 4 months. There were easily enough people in the condos to justify some kind of services, at least Thursdays-Mondays.
Las Palomas website still advertises all their amenities. Terrible... Basically, false advertising.
"lending their unit to a co-worker for $50 / night" is renting, and is in violation of the rental agreement. More importantly, it hurts the resort. My guess is that the owner had a history of under the table guest of owners.
It's an age old tactic of those under siege to get their enemies to turn against one another. that is what WWG has done. The Secret Squirrels have taken their eye off the prize,that being to evict the real cheaters, WWG.
"lending their unit to a co-worker for $50 / night" is renting, and is in violation of the rental agreement. More importantly, it hurts the resort. My guess is that the owner had a history of under the table guest of owners.
I would love to see an explanation of how "it hurts the resort"....an explanation that actually makes sense. The owner is paying the HOA fee....which covers the "wear and tear" of the common facility, is paying their utilities....how is that any different than if the owner was living there full time???? So the only one being "hurt" is the rental company, which it sounds hasn't been paying the owners for renting out THEIR property, or paying the workers at the resort.
A TOTAL regime change is in order. From the management company to the homeowners that oversee it. All have ulterior motives.
Oh my simple minded friend, it take a lot more than just saying a complete regime chage is in order. It is more than just an overnight dream. it takes time to plan it out accordingly (lawyers, notarios, interpretation of bylaws, negotiations, appraisals, making sure it meets mexican law, etc.). Big business is a lot more complicated than just saying "change everything". comments like that tell me it is a good thing some are not overseeing a multi-million dollar resort.
Simple minded? You sound like you might be one of the arrogant jackasses running things there, Never said it would be simple. just said it needs to happen.
Ernesto,
Dry heat has a vanity plate that reads "arrogant jackass" but he is all about the dollars so my guess is either this problem is so bad he thinks stirring it up will hurt the owners interests or he is mistakenly thinking siding with the man will put him first in line for the fire exit.
ernesto said:
Simple minded? You sound like you might be one of the arrogant jackasses running things there, Never said it would be simple. just said it needs to happen.
you guys are silly. Something this complicated is not going to be done overnight. unfortunately some think with their emotions rather than their head when it comes to wanting something done right away. the board representing the owners are more than able to handle the situation (ie. career and education background, legal counsel and professional advise if needed). Before we become chicken little and think the sky is falling, we should let things play out knowing that something of this magnitude takes time to make sure it is done right.
I don't live in Show Low any longer, but often wish I still did. We lived there from 2001-2005. It was the best time of our lives, except for the fire. Great people, well organized town, safe, the whole shebang. I'd like to split my time between Penasco and the Mountain sometime in the future...
I was at Las Palomas this last Tues. thru Fri. Pool heaters were on, pool bar open and restaurants open on weekends. Grounds and everything looked good. A security officer that I have known for the past four years told me that Friday was 75% occupied and Saturday was 80%. Now if the owners just get their money
from the WWG.
Now that Ben has admitted he's on WWGs payroll it's time for him to step down. Conflict of interest.Anyone know how much he says he's owed? I'm betting he's been paid.
Now that Ben has admitted he's on WWGs payroll it's time for him to step down. Conflict of interest.Anyone know how much he says he's owed? I'm betting he's been paid.
Wow, only in Mexico.
Ernesto, don't know if you are an owner at LP, but have you thought about joining one of the SC's? The place could use someone who the owners can trust.
Ahhhh the stupidity of people... why would WWG pay an owner any money? what benefit would they derive from it? Even if one owner owned 50% of the units, I still don't see why the developer would need anything from them since they control the current for profit business. Please tell us why the developer would need to pay any owner any money, what is the benefit to them. hopefully the situation will change soon, until then you sound like a dumb ass who is playing telephone. You are right curious george, corruption only happens in Mexico. good thing we live in the US where everyone is honest and free from corruption, I just wish the rest of the world would follow how we do business in the states.
Ahhhh the stupidity of people... why would WWG pay an owner any money? what benefit would they derive from it? Even if one owner owned 50% of the units, I still don't see why the developer would need anything from them since they control the current for profit business. Please tell us why the developer would need to pay any owner any money, what is the benefit to them. hopefully the situation will change soon, until then you sound like a dumb ass who is playing telephone. You are right curious george, corruption only happens in Mexico. good thing we live in the US where everyone is honest and free from corruption, I just wish the rest of the world would follow how we do business in the states.
Ahhhh...but why does the developer still control the for profit business when they are 2+ years delinquent in their HOA dues?
Oh, that's right, I read the answer earlier in this thread. Because owners who rent their own units hurt the entire resort by not giving business to the developer.
It takes a little while to remove the company that controls the for profit center. Would it not be nice to just say "let's get rid of them", "out with them", "fire them right now" and so on. However it is a little more complicated that that. For example... they own a lot of the property (including the road leading up to the resort), you have to make sure you are meeting sonoran law and federal law, you have to make sure you are meeting the bylaws of the resort, you have to make sure you are meeting labor laws, you have to make sure the non profit organization (ex. HOA) can meet state and federal tax laws for this type of entity, and I could list another 20 reasons. So, taking all emotion aside and frustration- it will take a little while to correct the situation.
Oh and yes, they still have no reason to play nice with any owner since they gain nothing from it. they don't need any owners influence in anything they do (ie. read bylaws, who owns, who controls, etc.). Things will eventually change and improve, however it will not happen overnight. Oh and yes owners who rent on their own still hurt the resort because they bring down the average rental rate, encourage a different type of clientelle, give guests a lower experience (ie. no daily maid service, no pool towels, have to tell them to sneek around, etc.).
It takes a little while to remove the company that controls the for profit center. Would it not be nice to just say "let's get rid of them", "out with them", "fire them right now" and so on. However it is a little more complicated that that. For example... they own a lot of the property (including the road leading up to the resort), you have to make sure you are meeting sonoran law and federal law, you have to make sure you are meeting the bylaws of the resort, you have to make sure you are meeting labor laws, you have to make sure the non profit organization (ex. HOA) can meet state and federal tax laws for this type of entity, and I could list another 20 reasons. So, taking all emotion aside and frustration- it will take a little while to correct the situation.
Oh and yes, they still have no reason to play nice with any owner since they gain nothing from it. they don't need any owners influence in anything they do (ie. read bylaws, who owns, who controls, etc.). Things will eventually change and improve, however it will not happen overnight. Oh and yes owners who rent on their own still hurt the resort because they bring down the average rental rate, encourage a different type of clientelle, give guests a lower experience (ie. no daily maid service, no pool towels, have to tell them to sneek around, etc.).
Mexican business economics are horrible. Supply and Demand should dictate the equilibrium price but it doesnt. These are the same Mexicans trying to sell me a fake watch for $100, except they dont realize that here in America we have places like TJ Max and Ross to buy REAL NICE watches for $100. I can get a $200 watch a TJ MAX for $75 and its REAL and comes with a LIMITED WARRANTY. The reason why private rental sales were destroying the resorts is because the resorts dont have a competitive price. We live in America and we know first hand the importance of COMPETITION in the MARKET PLACE. Private sellers IMO shouldnt have adversely affected the rental rates through the resorts directly because it creates competition. Yes, competition means prices come down but business goes up. Las Palomas realized they were being absolutely slaughtered on the rental front because THE OWNERS werent GREEDY FUCKS. The owners are happy to even meet the line and dont care about profit, well at least not in the sense that the Resort does. You know what LP did to combat the private rental market? They started issuing wristbands for facility use. Well, nearly 3 years later, I wonder how thats working out for them? A one bed one bath condo at LP would go for $200 a night plus tax. I believe out the door its like $223 a night, VS. the private seller that rents the same exact condo for $100 a night with a one time $40 cleaning fee. I would say at least five times a year we rent from one of the many contacts Ive developed over the years. We never ever even consider directly renting from the resort because it is an honest to god ripoff. I could go stay at any one of the 4 star resorts in SCOTTSDALE for $200 a night. Just saying, business is down and they are still trying to slang the "$100 fake watch", if you smell what the rock is cooking?!
Right on Joe! Time to cut the head off the snake. these dumb bastards would rather rent a couple of condos at rack rates rather than a shitload at a reduced price. They don't understand retail pricing. look at the EMPTY RESORT assholes,and then get a clue. You don't know everything Drymeat or whatever you call yourself.
It takes a little while to remove the company that controls the for profit center. Would it not be nice to just say "let's get rid of them", "out with them", "fire them right now" and so on. However it is a little more complicated that that. For example... they own a lot of the property (including the road leading up to the resort), you have to make sure you are meeting sonoran law and federal law, you have to make sure you are meeting the bylaws of the resort, you have to make sure you are meeting labor laws, you have to make sure the non profit organization (ex. HOA) can meet state and federal tax laws for this type of entity, and I could list another 20 reasons. So, taking all emotion aside and frustration- it will take a little while to correct the situation.
Oh and yes, they still have no reason to play nice with any owner since they gain nothing from it. they don't need any owners influence in anything they do (ie. read bylaws, who owns, who controls, etc.). Things will eventually change and improve, however it will not happen overnight. Oh and yes owners who rent on their own still hurt the resort because they bring down the average rental rate, encourage a different type of clientelle, give guests a lower experience (ie. no daily maid service, no pool towels, have to tell them to sneek around, etc.).
How the human mind can rationalize anything....even your side of the argument!!! I particularly love the "lower experience" comment.....my gosh....no daily maid service and god forbid....no pool towels!!! What am I going to do????:crybaby:
A one bed one bath condo at LP would go for $200 a night plus tax. I believe out the door its like $223 a night, VS. the private seller that rents the same exact condo for $100 a night with a one time $40 cleaning fee.
The resort allows owners to offer a discounted "owners rate" to any paying guest. The advantage is the resort provides hotel services to the paying guest and the guest does not pay any additional fees. A common problem for guests who rent directly from an owner who is not showing the guest as a "paying guest" is the guest does not receive services they expect. For example: a/c issues going out are common in the summer due to the electric problems in penasco, if a guest is a "paying guest" of the resort they would be moved to another unit in the hotel without charge since something is wrong with the unit. If the guest booked directly with the owner as a "guest of owner", the guest would have to deal with it and would not be able to be moved to another unit- unless they paid for another unit. Also the guest does not pay for wrist band fee's that give the guest access to the common areas (the wrist band fee is $25 for the entire stay and $5 per person per night- for example a 2 night stay for 4 people would be an additional $65 for 2 nights). The guest does not pay for any cleanings (for a 1 bedroom the cleaning fee is $40). The guest will receive daily maid service when they book as a "paying guest", also the guest will not have to worry about bringing pool towels since the resort will provide them. If you add up all the fee's I don't know if you are saving that much. Plus the hassle of something going wrong (ex. a/c goes out) would place the burden on the guest rather than the hotel.
The lowest owner approved rate for a 1 bedroom is $115 per night weekday and $145 per night weekend. I don't think these rates are out of the ballpark.
Ernesto is still a dumb ass. rack rates are rarely sold to a paying guest, even if they call the resort. It is like posting the msrp of a vehicle, no one pays that rate. it is used as a way for the resort to bargain down with the paying guest and make them think they are getting a good deal when compared to the rack rate (ex. our rack rate is $200 per night, however we will offer you $140 per night). the problem is the resort often posts the rack rate and does not make mention of a lower rate, unless you call and reserve that way- obviously something that needs to be fixed. I don't agree with their way of posting rates online.
Last think I want is a bunch of Ernesto's that can only afford $20 per night staying at the resort and changing the image of the resort as a low budget motel. So no, we don't want a "shitload" of rental units at bottom prices.
How the human mind can rationalize anything....even your side of the argument!!! I particularly love the "lower experience" comment.....my gosh....no daily maid service and god forbid....no pool towels!!! What am I going to do????:crybaby:
What are you going to do if the unit's a/c goes out in the summer. Are you going to bitch and moan to the resort or try and call the guest from mexico. Yes, that is another example of ruining a rental experience for a guest. if the guest is a "paying guest of the resort", the guest would be moved to another unit. Plus, units that are in the rental pool have to meet certain guidelines (ex. the type of window covers they have, flat screen tv's, the grade of furniture, etc.). when you rent from a non rental unit, the guest may not receive the same quality furnishings they where expecting. Plus, if you are not happy with the unit, the resort will move you for any reason (can't do that if you rent directly from an owner as a "guest of owner").
You still don't get it Drymeat. The resort is empty! People are scared . Entice, use price, fill the place up! If you are truly worried about the resort and not YOUR agenda you would.
Nesto, all the resorts are not full. what do you consider empty? the resort has 855 units! last week the resort had 40% of the rental units rented and 55% this week. would you provide percentage's on the other resorts along sandy beach to give us an idea what you consider empty?
"people are scared" ok, so are you now saying that they are not coming because of prices or because of fear of Mexico? If they are scare of Mexico, would they be enticed by $20 nightly rates? Would the guest now say, hey I am not afraid now, I will stay for $20 per night- that will make me go regardless of my fear.
Again, we don't want the resort to be a budget motel with budget motel clientelle.
dry heat....Considering I am just cheap trailer trash...you probably don't want me at your plush resort anyway......but if I'm "renting" directly from an owner or am a guest....I know exactly what I'm getting....maybe no flat screen tv or the daily maid service....none of which I need when I come to Penasco....I'm not there for the "resort experience"....I'm there for the ocean....the sunset....the food and..... the tequila!!! I don't need the pool towels....because I'm not a pool person....if I wanted to vegetate at a pool, I would stay home..... And if the airconditioning goes out....there is maintenance at the "resort" to fix it. Maybe it won't be instantaneous....but neither is having to pack up everything and move to another unit. But again....I'm trailer trash...years ago I used to camp at Playa Bonita during the summer months....without airconditioning.......just give me some shade and that great breeze off the ocean.....
Last think I want is a bunch of Ernesto's that can only afford $20 per night staying at the resort and changing the image of the resort as a low budget motel. So no, we don't want a "shitload" of rental units at bottom prices.
You are pulling our legs right? I have seen the people the resort places and they are not exactly screening all their guests for "quality". In fact, many owners who rent on their own, know their guests and in turn their guests treat their condo and the resort as if it were their own. They appreciate getting a reasonable deal in a down market and will likely come back over and over again.
I understand there is a need for a rental manager, because many owners do not have the time nor energy to market themselves. Just hard to understand why you need to force all owners into this model. Competition is a good thing. With it, maybe WWG would have performed better for those that stayed with them.
Thank God I am Trailer trash too... With people like Drymeat around the condo's and HOA I would throw up listening to that garbage. Drymeat please stay away from the happy friendly trailer trash people OK !!!! The sad thing is I think drymeat believes what he is preaching LOL sad so sad !
You are pulling our legs right? I have seen the people the resort places and they are not exactly screening all their guests for "quality". In fact, many owners who rent on their own, know their guests and in turn their guests treat their condo and the resort as if it were their own. They appreciate getting a reasonable deal in a down market and will likely come back over and over again.
I understand there is a need for a rental manager, because many owners do not have the time nor energy to market themselves. Just hard to understand why you need to force all owners into this model. Competition is a good thing. With it, maybe WWG would have performed better for those that stayed with them.
I've had the pleasure of using a friend's condo a couple of times.....definitely nicer than staying in my trailer.....and I appreciated the reduced rate. Just like curiousgeorge said, you tend to take care of something that belongs to a friend better then something that you're renting from an agent...... But dry heat....you come across as one of those snooty Scottsdale (or_________... fill in the blanks) types. I definitely would not want to associate with you, particularly on a vacation!!
competition is good if you don't have a contract that restricts your ability to lease or rent your unit. the bylaws of the resort state that you can only lease your unit via the onsite rental company. sorry, if someone does not like it, they should have done a better job of their due diligence. I don't remember saying a thing about trailer's (if you guys feel inferior because of that, that is your problem). I don't know why you would associate my words about not wanting budget motel clientelle with trailer people- that was you guys (I wonder if you feelt this way-hmmm). By the way many in the trailer parks have rv's and trailer that are worth well upwards of a hundred thousand- comparable to a lot of condo's on sandy beach.
I noted that the resort offers owners the opportunity to offer a reduced rate, I even stated the rate one could offer for a 1 bedroom (ex. $115 per night weekday, with no additional resort fee's). Is that unfair for this type of a resort?
competition is good if you don't have a contract that restricts your ability to lease or rent your unit. the bylaws of the resort state that you can only lease your unit via the onsite rental company. sorry, if someone does not like it, they should have done a better job of their due diligence. I don't remember saying a thing about trailer's (if you guys feel inferior because of that, that is your problem). I don't know why you would associate my words about not wanting budget motel clientelle with trailer people- that was you guys (I wonder if you feelt this way-hmmm). By the way many in the trailer parks have rv's and trailer that are worth well upwards of a hundred thousand- comparable to a lot of condo's on sandy beach.
I noted that the resort offers owners the opportunity to offer a reduced rate, I even stated the rate one could offer for a 1 bedroom (ex. $115 per night weekday, with no additional resort fee's). Is that unfair for this type of a resort?
The contract has been breached by nonperformance of one of the parties Drymeat.Have you sent your notice to WWG about their breach? Talk about due diligence,smug mutha.
dry heat.....how do you justify the owners not having been paid for their units that were rented thru the resort (by the for profit side)???? I believe you mentioned earlier somewhere around $400K+.....but that they would be paid "going forward"......should they hold their breaths????
competition is good if you don't have a contract that restricts your ability to lease or rent your unit. the bylaws of the resort state that you can only lease your unit via the onsite rental company. sorry, if someone does not like it, they should have done a better job of their due diligence.
Dryheat, this post is most confusing of all. If you agree that competition is good, why has the SC so rigorously attempted to enforce this single bylaw? This seems to benefit WWG and not the owners. No wonder some are questioning your agenda.
Couldn't the SC work to modify this bylaw to create some competition?
It's because some have been paid what they were owed to change their tune and try to get the rest back on the bus missing a couple of wheels.Right Drymeat? Cut the head off the snake!
DryMeat=Beef JERK y I will call and tell all the Hotel Managers in Las Vegas to stop giving any discounts prices during hard times or the slow season. Drymeat has spoken and he is much smarter then us common Folks. Right Drymeat=beef JERK y ? :blah::blah::blah:
Wow, I had no idea market competition would have been such a big bombshell, but I love it! Last April my gf and I were in RP for the weekend on a spur of the moment trip. We didnt have anything lined up and we dont mind staying at Playa Bonita but we decided to go door to door essentially looking for a decent rate at one of the resorts. We went to Sonoran Sun and Las Palomas. We have only rented directly from LP once and it was I believe $223 out the door for one night about 3 years ago. Both SS and LP wanted $200 a night for a one bed one bath at the front desk. Nobody informed us or even implied there was a different possible rate and so we moved on. We ended up going with our spur of the moment hotel that we dont mind; Playa Bonita. Now in saying that, Playa Bonita is I believe like $75 out the door per night. We are going to spend a minimum of that per night regardless and we would have rather stayed at one of the actual RESORTS if the price was substantially lower than $200. Las Palomas would have booked us at $125/night or even up to the quoted price from MEAT; $145/night. Nope, they were hellbent on $200 a night plus tax and lost our business to Playa Bonita, their secondary competition. Not to mention all the cash in my pocket that Im looking to blow quick at the swim up bar and dinner and whatever else it is that I might spend cash on while Im at their resort. BAD BUSINESS, and they practice it well. Another Mexican business practice is disrespecting people with money. When we arent staying at Las Palomas there have been times we wanted to go hang out there. NOPE, 0% chance of that happening now since they implemented the wristband deal. Security comes over to us 3 minutes after being there to tell us because we arent staying at the resort we have to leave. I have American money practically hanging out of my pocket, just looking for somewhere to spend it and Im getting kicked out?! Ridiculous, if I want I can go to any resort here in Phoenix, walk in and go to the bar, pool, whatever as long as your spending money nobody cares. I never understood why you would alienate or disrespect someone that is intent on spending money at your resort, completely assnine. In addition, LP use to advertise, "starting from $120 per night, PER PERSON! I will even say that the price MEAT lists at $145/night isnt bad if thats total, not per person. However, when my gf and I go we split the cost of the condo for a two night stay @ $100/night with a one time cleaning fee of $40 and wristband fee of $25/person X 2 = $290 TOTAL, divided by two is $145 each. After the craigslist inspired private sell a thon began the RENTAL POOL CROWD tried fear mongering to deter people from renting through private sellers. All I would see on craigslist were pissed off people that would say dont get caught renting from private or you are screwed if you AC goes out or electricity or hot water because you didnt rent directly through the resort. Fortunately for us we've never had any issue and the owners that I rent through have maintenance guys to call if something needs to be fixed. The price competition isnt even remotely close and thats why Ive only rented directly from the resort ONE TIME. This actually reminds me of a story and it really relates to this issue. About 3 years ago I came across a watch that I really really liked in the MALECON. It was fake obviously but it looked really good and seemed to be more quality than other watches I see down there. It was a dive watch with a nice big rubber band, really good looking. Anyways, the guy wanted $100 for this watch and I tried to explain to him that he would never sell that watch at $100. I showed him the $100 GUESS watch that I was wearing and tried to explain to him that this watch is REAL and has a WARRANTY. He didnt understand and it wasnt the communication barrier, this dude spoke english well. He simply didnt understand ECONOMICS, SUPPLY and DEMAND and INVENTORY. Furthermore, I wasnt leaving RP that weekend without that watch, but the guy wouldnt budge off of $100. Now to understand where Im coming from we have to understand this watch. The watch more than likely came out of CHINA and pry didnt cost more than $5 to make. After taking a boat trip to Mexico and a couple of middle men, the watch is now worth approximately $20. These Mexicans are so out of touch with reality that this guy was trying to make (and I hope Im not wrong, my math isnt great) a 400% profit on this FAKE WATCH. Selling the watch @ $40 and making 100% profit wasnt good enough for this dumb ass. Needless to say this guy had a whole rack of FAKE WATCHES none of which Im sure he sold that weekend piling up as INVENTORY. When you have a surplus inventory the way to get rid of it is to lower prices and liquidate your inventory to replace it with NEW PRODUCT. The guy wouldnt budge off $100 and I wasnt going to spend $100 on a FAKE WATCH and at this point my ego wouldnt allow it because this guy was such an idiot that I couldnt support that. Long story short, I never did buy that watch and for 6 months that summer the watch was still there every time I went to the Malecon. Shit, the watch might even still be there! Basically this guy is such an idiot that I wanted that watch so bad I would have payed $50 for it and he would have made a sale and cleared some INVENTORY, but he was so god damn greedy that he literally pissed away money. I see a lot of that happening at the resorts as well; unfortunate!
Nice story Joe. Obviously you get it.Las Palomas and the owners in their pocket won't listen long enough to get it. They are to busy poppin' offf about a contract that was signed by 2 parties and voided by WWG through non performance. They'll have more time to listen after they've been starved out and sent packing.Then those owners will learn the lesson at the hands of those that understand business.Its not about putting a bunch of expensive shit in your condo Ben,to get the upper hand. The MARKET dictates what the rent should be. Listen up!
The contract has been breached by nonperformance of one of the parties Drymeat.Have you sent your notice to WWG about their breach? Talk about due diligence,smug mutha.
The bylaw of not renting outside of one rental management company is an HOA bylaw enforced by the HOA. Owners knew from the beginning that they had to rent via the company that manages the rental's at the resort. Now if the rental company breached their contract, then they could either be voted out or the individual could cancel their contract with them. However if an owner cancelled their contract, they could still not rent their unit outside of the rental company. the solution is to either have enough owners to vote out the company and replace with another or cancel your contract with them (again can't rent the unit if you go this route). As I say this, I believe the resort will have a different rental company sometime this year.
dry heat.....how do you justify the owners not having been paid for their units that were rented thru the resort (by the for profit side)???? I believe you mentioned earlier somewhere around $400K+.....but that they would be paid "going forward"......should they hold their breaths????
Past rental income owed by the rental company and dues owed to the HOA are being negotiated so that we have a solution to past money owed. This unfortunately is not a quick fix solution (lawyers involved, labor laws, making sure agreement meets hoa bylaws and making sure it meets state/federal laws, in additon to making sure the agreement is the best one that can be made for the benefit of owners and the HOA). I believe we will have a solution sooner than later.
If you agree that competition is good, why has the SC so rigorously attempted to enforce this single bylaw? This seems to benefit WWG and not the owners. No wonder some are questioning your agenda. Couldn't the SC work to modify this bylaw to create some competition?
Competition is good, we have it among the resorts (ex. sun, spa, sea, sky, bella sirena, tessoro, las palomas, etc.) We can't though have 400+ individual owners dictating the market and having hundreds of different price points as to what one thinks they should charge. Example: what would stop an owner from renting their unit for $10 per night? eventually they would book 100% and under cut other owners. at that rate the market would drop only because owners dictated the rates rather than what the market thought was appropriate. The competition should be among resorts, and as it stands- Las Palomas still has a higher occupancy percentage than the market (see examples above) and the price point is on par with the other resorts along sandy beach. The enforcement of only one rental management company at the resort has a variety of benefits. To owners that don't rent, they are not going to want tens of independent contractors on the property servicing units (ex. maid service, rental agencies, etc.). Also one rental management company is common among most of the resorts along sandy beach. Eventually when a new rental company comes along, they will benefit from having the enforcement of one rental agency.
It's because some have been paid what they were owed to change their tune and try to get the rest back on the bus missing a couple of wheels.Right Drymeat? Cut the head off the snake!
If you are saying that some owners have been paid past rental income, I don't see why the operator would need to do this since they don't need approval from any single owner as long as they are the rental company on site (you could have all owners say that the operator eats children, yet that won't change anything unless the operator is removed by the assembly of rental owners- 400+). As I said before, I believe we will have a new rental company sometime this year (my guess). The rest of your post is filled with emotion and I can't answer that.
DryMeat=Beef JERK y I will call and tell all the Hotel Managers in Las Vegas to stop giving any discounts prices during hard times or the slow season. Drymeat has spoken and he is much smarter then us common Folks. Right Drymeat=beef JERK y ? :blah::blah::blah:
<WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP>, you are filled with emotion in your rant. The resort does offer a discounted rate that owners can offer via the rental company that actually is lower than similar sized units along sandy beach. If you reserve via the resort, the rate is on par with these resorts.
Wow, I had no idea market competition would have been such a big bombshell, but I love it! Last April my gf and I were in RP for the weekend on a spur of the moment trip. We didnt have anything lined up and we dont mind staying at Playa Bonita but we decided to go door to door essentially looking for a decent rate at one of the resorts. We went to Sonoran Sun and Las Palomas. We have only rented directly from LP once and it was I believe $223 out the door for one night about 3 years ago. Both SS and LP wanted $200 a night for a one bed one bath at the front desk. Nobody informed us or even implied there was a different possible rate and so we moved on. We ended up going with our spur of the moment hotel that we dont mind; Playa Bonita. Now in saying that, Playa Bonita is I believe like $75 out the door per night. We are going to spend a minimum of that per night regardless and we would have rather stayed at one of the actual RESORTS if the price was substantially lower than $200. Las Palomas would have booked us at $125/night or even up to the quoted price from MEAT; $145/night. Nope, they were hellbent on $200 a night plus tax and lost our business to Playa Bonita, their secondary competition. Not to mention all the cash in my pocket that Im looking to blow quick at the swim up bar and dinner and whatever else it is that I might spend cash on while Im at their resort. BAD BUSINESS, and they practice it well. Another Mexican business practice is disrespecting people with money. When we arent staying at Las Palomas there have been times we wanted to go hang out there. NOPE, 0% chance of that happening now since they implemented the wristband deal. Security comes over to us 3 minutes after being there to tell us because we arent staying at the resort we have to leave. I have American money practically hanging out of my pocket, just looking for somewhere to spend it and Im getting kicked out?! Ridiculous, if I want I can go to any resort here in Phoenix, walk in and go to the bar, pool, whatever as long as your spending money nobody cares. I never understood why you would alienate or disrespect someone that is intent on spending money at your resort, completely assnine. In addition, LP use to advertise, "starting from $120 per night, PER PERSON! I will even say that the price MEAT lists at $145/night isnt bad if thats total, not per person. However, when my gf and I go we split the cost of the condo for a two night stay @ $100/night with a one time cleaning fee of $40 and wristband fee of $25/person X 2 = $290 TOTAL, divided by two is $145 each. After the craigslist inspired private sell a thon began the RENTAL POOL CROWD tried fear mongering to deter people from renting through private sellers. All I would see on craigslist were pissed off people that would say dont get caught renting from private or you are screwed if you AC goes out or electricity or hot water because you didnt rent directly through the resort. Fortunately for us we've never had any issue and the owners that I rent through have maintenance guys to call if something needs to be fixed. The price competition isnt even remotely close and thats why Ive only rented directly from the resort ONE TIME. This actually reminds me of a story and it really relates to this issue. About 3 years ago I came across a watch that I really really liked in the MALECON. It was fake obviously but it looked really good and seemed to be more quality than other watches I see down there. It was a dive watch with a nice big rubber band, really good looking. Anyways, the guy wanted $100 for this watch and I tried to explain to him that he would never sell that watch at $100. I showed him the $100 GUESS watch that I was wearing and tried to explain to him that this watch is REAL and has a WARRANTY. He didnt understand and it wasnt the communication barrier, this dude spoke english well. He simply didnt understand ECONOMICS, SUPPLY and DEMAND and INVENTORY.
Way too long... cliff notes? are we still comparing watches to rental rates?
1. You are right, the operator is bad at the rental game when it comes to people walking in and asking for a rate (heard it before). Hopefully this will be corrected with either a new rental company or with the current one (they have been advised of the problem). In the future, if you want the lowest approved rate, try sites such as VRBO and you will notice the rate is closer to what I said before (ex. $115 per night for a weekday 1 bedroom unit- no additional fee's).
2. wristbands are nothing new to resorts along sandy beach. for a while Las Palomas was one of the few resorts that did not have wristbands, this resulted in a variety of people using the pools and common area. Example, we would often find families from the areas using the pools on sunday. again, wristbands are common among many of the resorts (ex. bella, sonoran properties). Unfortunately for every person that would spend money in the pool bar, we have a lot more that would just use the pools (ex. fights broke out prior to wristbands and not knowing who was a guest). If someone wanted to eat at one of the restaurants or play golf, they are certainly allowed. the problem exists with allowing people off the street onto the pool areas. I don't think mexican's disrespect people with money, I have no problem and I own a variety of property in rocky point (I have yet to have my g500 keyed or have anyone take my plastic caps from my escalade).
Mexico Joe....but they will...as long as you just pay the rental company....and not pay the owners....that makes sense, deosn't it?
I should be allowed to stay anywhere I want in RP and still be able to go "CHILL" at LP. I should be able to walk in and sit by the pool and spend money. Im pretty sure one of the security guards tried telling me I couldnt be on the beach in front of LP because I wasnt staying there. I thought the beach was federal land and open to anyone?! Terrible (IN MY CHARLES BARKLEY VOICE)
Nice story Joe. Obviously you get it.Las Palomas and the owners in their pocket won't listen long enough to get it. They are to busy poppin' offf about a contract that was signed by 2 parties and voided by WWG through non performance. They'll have more time to listen after they've been starved out and sent packing.Then those owners will learn the lesson at the hands of those that understand business.Its not about putting a bunch of expensive shit in your condo Ben,to get the upper hand. The MARKET dictates what the rent should be. Listen up!
Emotions, Emotions. If you want to suceed monetarily you are going to have to eventually take emotion out of your wants and needs. Again with the owners in LP's pocket, why oh why would the operator need to pay off any owners, they can do as they please regardless if every single rental owners hated them (unless they are removed or replaced by a different rental company). Paying owners off would be bad business if they didn't need to in the 1st place- good thing they are not taking my advise huh. As I said, eventually we will have a new operator. in the meantime, at least the current one is paying rental income moving forward (since feb.). past rental income is being negotiated- sorry no fairy dust available to pay everyone off immediately. You keep mentioning "Ben", did he break up with you?
You are right my little ernesto, the market does dictate what rent should be and the rates are in line (if not lower in many cases) with other resorts along sandy beach.
MEAT, why wont LP let me come and spend money at their resort? I dress and act appropriately, dont they like money?
Yes, you can spend money at the restaurants and golf course (and not be a guest of the resort). however to enter the pool grounds, one must be an approved guest of the resort. The majority of non resort guests that entered the pool area (pool bars/pools), where there to use the pools (if the majority where there to spend money at the pool bar rather than having a family of 8 using the facilities, it may have been different).
Mexico Joe....but they will...as long as you just pay the rental company....and not pay the owners....that makes sense, deosn't it?
almost all of the resorts have exclusive rental companies that must be used if a unit is going to be rented. again, rental income being paid for current rentals- past rental income owed is being negotiated and hopefully we will have a resolution (ex. a new rental company). I wish I could focus on the emotional aspect of it all and be pissed off by saying "off with their heads", "fire them all", "they suck", etc. However, I would rather try and find a solution than just complain and say we should do this or that.
I should be allowed to stay anywhere I want in RP and still be able to go "CHILL" at LP. I should be able to walk in and sit by the pool and spend money. Im pretty sure one of the security guards tried telling me I couldnt be on the beach in front of LP because I wasnt staying there. I thought the beach was federal land and open to anyone?! Terrible (IN MY CHARLES BARKLEY VOICE)
stay anywhere you want and spend all you want at any of the restaurants or the golf course. unfortunately too many people outside guest used the pools rather than spend money at the pool bars, thus the reason why the area is reserved for authorized guests. Yes, beach is federal land and open to any one up to a certain level (palapa area is part of private property).
Way too long... cliff notes? are we still comparing watches to rental rates?
1. You are right, the operator is bad at the rental game when it comes to people walking in and asking for a rate (heard it before). Hopefully this will be corrected with either a new rental company or with the current one (they have been advised of the problem). In the future, if you want the lowest approved rate, try sites such as VRBO and you will notice the rate is closer to what I said before (ex. $115 per night for a weekday 1 bedroom unit- no additional fee's).
2. wristbands are nothing new to resorts along sandy beach. for a while Las Palomas was one of the few resorts that did not have wristbands, this resulted in a variety of people using the pools and common area. Example, we would often find families from the areas using the pools on sunday. again, wristbands are common among many of the resorts (ex. bella, sonoran properties). Unfortunately for every person that would spend money in the pool bar, we have a lot more that would just use the pools (ex. fights broke out prior to wristbands and not knowing who was a guest). If someone wanted to eat at one of the restaurants or play golf, they are certainly allowed. the problem exists with allowing people off the street onto the pool areas. I don't think mexican's disrespect people with money, I have no problem and I own a variety of property in rocky point (I have yet to have my g500 keyed or have anyone take my plastic caps from my escalade).
Yo DRY MEAT, you dont need cliff notes, you have the reading comprehension of a PRO, right?! I wasnt comparing watches to rental rates, only comparing how MEXICANS do business. I dont believe the operator is bad at the rental game, they arent bad they are bad people. They purposefully dont tell you about the cheaper rate, why would they?! Its not that they are bad at what they do, its that they dont give a <WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP>! If it's this person's job to get business into the resort they are doing a horrible job and should have been fired. Like I said we went elsewhere because of a $50 difference. Also, if you are educated and I know you are because we've gone back and forth these past couple of days you would know that a CONDO isnt going to rent out for $10/night. $100/night yes but $10 come on, now you're making this a joke. Im well aware of the reason why LP implemented a wristband policy, because for a while like you said the LOCALS were using the pool like it was the SUNNYSLOPE CITY OF PHX POOL. I understand this but what I dont understand and this has nothing to do with race but simply THE TRUTH, IM WHITE AND A TOURIST AND I HAVE MONEY (well... at least thats what the RP cops think every time they stop me) THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SPEND. Kicking locals out because they are DEGENERATING isnt the same as telling me to leave when Im about to DROP $50 at the swim up bar! You took what I said out of context, I didnt mean they disrespect anyone that has money, as in you with your G WAGON. What I was saying is that they are disrespectful of possible guests or people that are going to spend money at their resort. I know this has nothing to do with LP but the last time we stayed at SONORAN SKY the security was hassling the hell out of us and my buddy and I were talking about it and I was saying could you imagine that happening at the KIERLAND RESORT OR DESERT RIDGE OR THE POINT TAPATIO CLIFFS OR ANY OTHER RESORT HOTEL IN AMERICA. When I was younger I was a bellman at EMBASSY SUITES PV, and the one thing I learned about the HOTEL RESORT INDUSTRY, the GUEST IS ALWAYS RIGHT. You would never get asked what room or what floor you were staying on IN AMERICA, the HOTEL OR RESORT DOESNT ALIENATE GUESTS OR POTENTIAL GUESTS LIKE THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happens a lot in RP though, why? Because LOCALS WERE USING THE POOLS????????? IM WHITE AND I HAVE MONEY TO SPEND, tell the LOCALS TO GO HOME AND TURN TO ME AND SAY WHAT CAN I GET FOR YOU SIR?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yo DRY MEAT, you dont need cliff notes, you have the reading comprehension of a PRO, right?! I wasnt comparing watches to rental rates, only comparing how MEXICANS do business. I dont believe the operator is bad at the rental game, they arent bad they are bad people. They purposefully dont tell you about the cheaper rate, why would they?! Its not that they are bad at what they do, its that they dont give a <WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP><WASH MY MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP>! If it's this person's job to get business into the resort they are doing a horrible job and should have been fired. Like I said we went elsewhere because of a $50 difference. Also, if you are educated and I know you are because we've gone back and forth these past couple of days you would know that a CONDO isnt going to rent out for $10/night. $100/night yes but $10 come on, now you're making this a joke. Im well aware of the reason why LP implemented a wristband policy, because for a while like you said the LOCALS were using the pool like it was the SUNNYSLOPE CITY OF PHX POOL. I understand this but what I dont understand and this has nothing to do with race but simply THE TRUTH, IM WHITE AND A TOURIST AND I HAVE MONEY (well... at least thats what the RP cops think every time they stop me) THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SPEND. Kicking locals out because they are DEGENERATING isnt the same as telling me to leave when Im about to DROP $50 at the swim up bar! You took what I said out of context, I didnt mean they disrespect anyone that has money, as in you with your G WAGON. What I was saying is that they are disrespectful of possible guests or people that are going to spend money at their resort. I know this has nothing to do with LP but the last time we stayed at SONORAN SKY the security was hassling the hell out of us and my buddy and I were talking about it and I was saying could you imagine that happening at the KIERLAND RESORT OR DESERT RIDGE OR THE POINT TAPATIO CLIFFS OR ANY OTHER RESORT HOTEL IN AMERICA. When I was younger I was a bellman at EMBASSY SUITES PV, and the one thing I learned about the HOTEL RESORT INDUSTRY, the GUEST IS ALWAYS RIGHT. You would never get asked what room or what floor you were staying on IN AMERICA, the HOTEL OR RESORT DOESNT ALIENATE GUESTS OR POTENTIAL GUESTS LIKE THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happens a lot in RP though, why? Because LOCALS WERE USING THE POOLS????????? IM WHITE AND I HAVE MONEY TO SPEND, tell the LOCALS TO GO HOME AND TURN TO ME AND SAY WHAT CAN I GET FOR YOU SIR?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I absolutely agree that the current operator has had a problem with advertising a lower rate or selling a lower rate. If one goes to the internet or walks up to the resort, they will pay a different rate than if they called the resort and/or rented via an owner approved rate. Hopefully this will be fixed soon. My point about a $10 per night rental was exaggerated, however before the rental rules where enforced prices had been driven down to $50 per night for a 1 bedroom and $75 per night for a 2 bedroom. The operator was getting complaints from fellow rental owners and even other resorts because some owners where driving down the market rate for their own individual gain. I too agree that certain decision can be made subjectively by security when it comes to people entering the grounds, hopefully this will be something that will be improved in the near future with proper security training (unfortunately right now so many other issues are on the plate that need attention in order to improve the overal package- including the for profit areas).
If i owned and seldom rented or loaned out my place i think i would like the wrist band system.It seems the resort management company could take a smaller piece of the rent...maybe 25 per cent and this would get the owner more money.
I absolutely agree that the current operator has had a problem with advertising a lower rate or selling a lower rate. If one goes to the internet or walks up to the resort, they will pay a different rate than if they called the resort and/or rented via an owner approved rate. Hopefully this will be fixed soon. My point about a $10 per night rental was exaggerated, however before the rental rules where enforced prices had been driven down to $50 per night for a 1 bedroom and $75 per night for a 2 bedroom. The operator was getting complaints from fellow rental owners and even other resorts because some owners where driving down the market rate for their own individual gain. I too agree that certain decision can be made subjectively by security when it comes to people entering the grounds, hopefully this will be something that will be improved in the near future with proper security training (unfortunately right now so many other issues are on the plate that need attention in order to improve the overal package- including the for profit areas).
Is it just possible that these owners were fed up with not getting paid AT ALL for the days their units were rented out....and when they were paid (ha ha ha), that is all they were clearing after the rental agent took his CUT (what is is at Palomas....30%....35%????).
Complaints from other "resorts" should have no play in the discussion.....it's called supply and demand.....
I also have no problem with a wristband policy to identify owners/guests versus other riff-raff (like Mexico Joe....:rofl:)....my beef in a previous thread was that it was costing money for guests to get those wristbands.....supposedly to cover the "wear and tear" on the resort.....when this should be covered in the HOA fees (which I've heard are some of the highest in Penasco...but I could be wrong on that)....more money that was going into the rental agents pocket (???) without the owners seeing anything for it.
I also have no problem with a wristband policy to identify owners/guests versus other riff-raff (like Mexico Joe....:rofl:)....my beef in a previous thread was that it was costing money for guests to get those wristbands.....supposedly to cover the "wear and tear" on the resort.....when this should be covered in the HOA fees (which I've heard are some of the highest in Penasco...but I could be wrong on that)....more money that was going into the rental agents pocket (???) without the owners seeing anything for it.
The fact that some people used the pools at LP was used as a smokescreen to implement a wristband policy to stop owners from renting outside WWG. The reason money is charged is to make it harder for anyone to make a profit by charging a lower rate than the resort. This money is supposed to go to the HOA but of course that has not happened.