We just bought a place in Las Conchas at the end of April. Both my wife and I drive down and back separately often (we have a U.S. business that one or both needs to attend to). We've noticed a spate of problems/delays on the U.S. side since we've become frequent crossers.
My truck gets selected for search every time. While detaining me, they ask me questions about my business, etc., then ask her questions about my business when she crosses. This week, they kept my and my daughter's passport when done inspecting my truck, then at the first CBP checkpoint in Arizona told me that they'd have my wife pick it up when she crossed a little while later. This is when they asked her the questions about me that I'd just been asked. Weird.
A worse experience has involved the Pima County Sheriff officers. Shortly after crossing (and, naturally, getting an inspection), three officers in three different trucks pulled me over for no reason at MP61. The officers searched my truck and found four empty beer bottles in the very back (they were from my guests the day before). Cited and arrested me for open container violation after verifying that I was perfectly sober. I suspect CBP may have alerted them ahead about the bottles--do CBP and PCS coordinate? Once PCS determined I hadn't been drinking, I kinda think they felt they had to justify deploying three officers and three $60k trucks, and maybe teach me a lesson about leaving the Mother Country. Don't really know what's going on, but thought I ask what forumers think.
Oh, and be sure to discard any beer or wine bottles you may have before crossing, even if they're empty. I didn't realize the little residue left in the bottom allows law enforcement to count them as open containers in Arizona.
Motsy, sorry that happened. They are bent on making your trip to Mexico difficult. Open your remote office at the beach house and screw em!
They have told both my wife and myself that we have no rights in the border zone. I thought they singled us out because of the Sonoran plated cars that we drive. I guess not. Dont let the iron fist cause you grief do what you love! Love what you do! We will see you next time you are in town!
On edit, thanks for the reminders on getting rid of the bottles and cans, as you know my van fills up with empties all the time but they are like 40 feet behind me . It just tells me to empty it out before I cross the border.
Hell, I regularly have 3/4 case of Pacifico empties in the back of my truck and nobody ever says boo about it, even in secondary. They're returnable for deposit on the next case. But, they are truly in the back of my truck -- in the bed and under a camper shell -- no way to get to them from the cab. Any judge would throw an open container citation right out of the court room door, especially if you have not been drinking.
Sorry to hear they're putting you through that kinda hell. Obviously, they don't have much to do. I have been stopped in Ajo and was told I had a brake light out. "Gee honey, would you mind stepping on the brake pedal so I can see which light is out? That's odd Mr. Sheriff po-po, they both seem to be working now, don't they?" Same outside Gila Bend one trip. When asked why I was stopped, I was simply told - "You fit the profile." I do? What profile would that be? Tourist? Fisherman? Mexican? Drug smuggler? Or just plain Smart Ass? I thought it was a violation of civil rights for the police to stop you based on a profile. Apparently, not on the way to/from the border.
What Russ said. You have no rights within a 100 miles of the border. They can stop you for any imaginary reason they want. I just laugh and play the game. I don't drink and drive, I don't speed, so really, what in the hell can they arrest me for? And unless you are arresting me, you can hand my passport back to me right now. Thanks.
Talking about it here won't make things better. This is stuff to brinng up with US authorities. Document time, date, names, video, photo, audio and have Moore represent you!!
Don't worry, Russ...a little time in the Ajo jail won't dissuade me. Only makes me want to be in Mexico more! For all our benefit, here is a lawyer's summary of Arizona's open container law. Note that it does include empties.:
"Arizona is one of 43 U.S. states that outlaws the possession of an open container of alcohol while operating a vehicle or while within the passenger compartment of a vehicle. While an open container violation does not carry the same consequences of a DUI, the state of Arizona does have one of the harshest open container laws in the country.
It is against the law in Arizona for a person in a vehicle to have an open empty container that once contained an alcoholic beverage or an open container with an alcoholic beverage still in it. According to Arizona Revised Statute 4-251, a person that violates the open container law can be found guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor, which is punishable with a fine of up to $750 and up to four months in jail. Other states simply have a fine that is less than $50 for such a violation."
My truck's a three-row-seat LR3, and the 4 bottles were in the way back. I was alone, so I couldn't possibly reach them. But they were literally in the passenger compartment, I guess.
When I first signed on to forum I didn't think I would be spending so much time on here on first two days on the fishing forum I asked about fish lic boat permit and about the dangers we here about up here some one replys danger danger will robinson etc I should have included what about other problems like what is being talked about here as for the subject at hand here now you don't want my husband to offer you his thoughts on this I can tell you he says the law is the law he also says that if any one ever hits us because of drinking or has evidence of drinking he says that the driver had better kill him in the crash because if he can get to them he will we are now taking a pause and rethinking our trip down and considering all aspects it is obvious now that there are many things to consider before going to rocky point we understand that there are two sides to every story but one thing that is certain we will always side with the law
Silvia, there is a lot of joking/teasing that goes on here...but.....it is safe to go down to Penasco....the only thing to consider is that you are going to a foreign country...different laws and regulations. The only thing I worry about driving around in town is that the red lights and stop signs are only "advisory" for the locals! :rofl:
When I first signed on to forum I didn't think I would be spending so much time on here on first two days on the fishing forum I asked about fish lic boat permit and about the dangers we here about up here some one replys danger danger will robinson etc I should have included what about other problems like what is being talked about here as for the subject at hand here now you don't want my husband to offer you his thoughts on this I can tell you he says the law is the law he also says that if any one ever hits us because of drinking or has evidence of drinking he says that the driver had better kill him in the crash because if he can get to them he will we are now taking a pause and rethinking our trip down and considering all aspects it is obvious now that there are many things to consider before going to rocky point we understand that there are two sides to every story but one thing that is certain we will always side with the law
Silvia, you're taking a lot of this stuff way too seriously. Most of it is joking amongst long-time members of the forum. Without a doubt there is absolutely nothing to worry about in Rocky Point. Not sure what made you start talking about drinking and driving, but that can and does happy everywhere - in every country on the planet. There are other forums specifically for RV'ers in Mexico and you'll get a lot more specific information from them. Also, you might want to read the "People's Guide to Mexico" by Carl Franz. It's got absolutely everything in it for first-timers and RV'ers to Mexico - or people traveling by car. It's not Rocky Point specific, but it's a wealth of information. Here's a link to it: Peoples Guide to Mexico
This proverbial expression is of English origin and the ass being referred to here is the English colloquial name for a donkey, not the American 'ass', which we will leave behind us at this point. Donkeys have a, somewhat unjustified, reputation for obstinance and stupidity that has given us the adjective 'asinine'. It is the stupidly rigid application of the law that this phrase calls into question.
Silvia said:
When I first signed on to forum I didn't think I would be spending so much time on here on first two days on the fishing forum I asked about fish lic boat permit and about the dangers we here about up here some one replys danger danger will robinson etc I should have included what about other problems like what is being talked about here as for the subject at hand here now you don't want my husband to offer you his thoughts on this I can tell you he says the law is the law he also says that if any one ever hits us because of drinking or has evidence of drinking he says that the driver had better kill him in the crash because if he can get to them he will we are now taking a pause and rethinking our trip down and considering all aspects it is obvious now that there are many things to consider before going to rocky point we understand that there are two sides to every story but one thing that is certain we will always side with the law
I feel a lot safer in Mexixo than I do in what the ACLU calls the "Constitution-Free Zone." Take an area where you have no rights and staff it with xenophobic, testosterone-addled government officials? Good idea.
I'd always noticed I get more questions when I travel alone than I do when I'm with the family or kids, but now that I have a house there and am crossing the border so often, the level of scrutiny is starting to get a little spooky. Border control came up to my car (while I was still three cars back in line) with my husband's and daughter's "forgotten" passports. When I got up to the booth, the border guard looked at every page of my passport and asked me about several of the stamps, the State Department embossed seal you get when you add extra pages to your passport, and what my husband - not in the car - did for a living. I am not the type to be paranoid, but it's kinda weird.
I'm assuming they'll eventually learn I'm not smuggling drugs or illegals. Or open containers.
I come from California and cross the border at the closes crossing. I find there are less hassels traveling on the Mexico side. That wasn't the case win I first started comming down.
I love it when I'm in the car with my Mexican husband who is a Legal Permanent Resident and we roll up and the CBP Officer Gonzalez, who speaks English with a heavy accent (obviously a Naturalized American Citizen), asks me if I "know" the man sitting next to me! LOL I am an uncontrolled "eye roller" so of course I get that look on my face like, "Don't start with me!". Next thing I know we're in secondary and they're taking all our stuff out the car. I must have been asked at least 2 more times if I knew the man in the car with me.
But, when we roll up and it's an Anglo, Gringo, white, whatever you want to call it, CBP officer we have absolutely no problems. Reverse discrimination much?
Silvia Sez: we are now taking a pause and rethinking our trip down and considering all aspects it is obvious now that there are many things to consider before going to rocky point we understand that there are two sides to every story but one thing that is certain we will always side with the law
The things you should consider before coming to Penasco are the same things you should consider before taking a trip anywhere. Please note that the comments and issues discussed above here occurred in the US, not in Mexico so they might occur on a trip from your home to Phoenix or Albuquerque.
I for one am having difficulty understanding what the several law enforcement entities operating near the border are trying to accomplish. Just asking and wishing someone could explain, someone who actually knows, not a speculator. I'm thinking the multiple jurisdictions aren't talking to each other too much, other than to nail those empty container transporters.
I am a layman, so take my advice for what it's worth, but in my research on the topic, you do not need to answer any questions at the border as to where you have been, what the purpose of your trip was, who your daddy was, etc. The fact is that you have a fifth amendment right and can use it at the border, but most likely the CBP clowns will take you to task for doing so. As a matter of international law, the CBP clowns cannot refuse to repatriate a US citizen. They will make your crossing uncomfortable as possible, but if they're doing that already, why not just give them a reality check on their ego-driven power trip?
As for the internal CBP checkpoints, the USSC decision allowed for brief stops at checkpoint to engage in "consensual conversation". CBP has been abusing the hell out of this, mainly busting people for simple weed possession. The checkpoints are supposedly for immigration matters but the truth of the matter is they are really part of the failed War on Drugs. Again, you do not need to co-operate with CBP at these checkpoints. For some tips on how to deal with them, this fellow has been fighting the fight for years now:
He has some great videos on YouTube that will demonstrate how to deal with these jackboots. He also has a civil suite in court right now for civil rights violations at one such checkpoint.
To be sure, if you take these guys on you risk being falsely accused and arrested, and perhaps even getting a beat-down by the roid-heads, so you need to assess how much you are willing to put yourself out there to assert your rights.
Again I stress I'm a layman so this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
I would NOT advise not answering they're questions. My husband's cousin is a tax attorney in New York, and while traveling from Buffalo to Canada, he said exactly what you said, "I don't have to answer that question". Well, he was cuffed, detained for several hours, and now EVERY trip to Canada (his mother has a summer home there), he is detained at least an hour. You (and he) may be right about not having to answer questions, but it's not worth it. Unless they're asking me questions my doctor would ask, I'm answering them!
When i crossed iat Sasabe last Saturday i had a little fun with Mr. Hardass with the gay Moustache
Him were you coming from?
me the beach
Him were exactly? (he starts to get pissed)
me not sure my Garmin gps maps really suck.Do you know it received 4 stars on Amazon and..
Him where were you and where are you headed
me (my truck is pretty hoboed out) I lost my job when that socialist Obama ruined America and have been living on the beach.It didn't work out so I'm headed to Alabama,
Him have a good day sir.
DMAC said:
I am a layman, so take my advice for what it's worth, but in my research on the topic, you do not need to answer any questions at the border as to where you have been, what the purpose of your trip was, who your daddy was, etc. The fact is that you have a fifth amendment right and can use it at the border, but most likely the CBP clowns will take you to task for doing so. As a matter of international law, the CBP clowns cannot refuse to repatriate a US citizen. They will make your crossing uncomfortable as possible, but if they're doing that already, why not just give them a reality check on their ego-driven power trip?
As for the internal CBP checkpoints, the USSC decision allowed for brief stops at checkpoint to engage in "consensual conversation". CBP has been abusing the hell out of this, mainly busting people for simple weed possession. The checkpoints are supposedly for immigration matters but the truth of the matter is they are really part of the failed War on Drugs. Again, you do not need to co-operate with CBP at these checkpoints. For some tips on how to deal with them, this fellow has been fighting the fight for years now:
He has some great videos on YouTube that will demonstrate how to deal with these jackboots. He also has a civil suite in court right now for civil rights violations at one such checkpoint.
To be sure, if you take these guys on you risk being falsely accused and arrested, and perhaps even getting a beat-down by the roid-heads, so you need to assess how much you are willing to put yourself out there to assert your rights.
Again I stress I'm a layman so this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Have you all ever given it a thought that if you do not answer their questions all you are doing is upsetting them that much more and think about this what if some one plants drugs while removing things and inspecting your car now you really get in trouble not us we would not give them any lip back
Have you all ever given it a thought that if you do not answer their questions all you are doing is upsetting them that much more and think about this what if some one plants drugs while removing things and inspecting your car now you really get in trouble not us we would not give them any lip back
Sil.
I think the pigs are counting on that. And so, with people refusing to assert their rights, the police state goose-stpes merrily on.
I do not think the term pigs is a proper word to use when refering to the people that are there to protect you me and any one else that are leaving and reentering this country they are doing what they are doing because of all of the drugs guns and all of the other contraband that enters and leaves this country along with the illegals that enter
if all you people get upset because of the way you are being treated then why put yourself in that situation if that was the way we felt then we would never go to rocky point and in fact after viewing the different discussions here we may never go there either and would advise any one to refrain from traveling to rocky point one has to wonder if the hassle that you all speak of is worth the visit to rocky point
We always accommodate the questions. What’s the big deal? They have your passport info. And I think you are a subject of further questioning on your next trip if you smart off.. Maybe tag your name? They have a job and they are trained to ask questions. If you smart off, tag your it….
I refer to them as "pigs" because honest people with a decent heart would never cage someone for having 4 empty beer bottles in the back of their truck. Or for having some plant matter on them. Or for just wanting to travel freely in a country that prides itself on being "the home of the free and land of the brave". Good people would be repulsed by such actions and refuse to take part. Peaceful people should not be treated like animals, period. As for smuggling drugs and guns, I happen to believe a person has a right to both those things. And what exactly is the purpose of the 4th amendment anyway if they can just stop you willy-nilly at a checkpoint inside the country and claim some dog smelled drugs and rip your car apart? As to asserting one's rights at the border, if everyone did it they would just have to stop being jackboots because they can't tag everyone and expect that things won't grind to an absolute stop.
I understand why people go along to get along, but that mindset in the American people has created the police-state we have now. It will take a whole lot of non-cooperation and civil disobedience to regain the "land of the free".
Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now. Like I said, I understand that people who want to travel back and forth have a decision to make. I am a little more forgiving of the CPB at the border, but have no time for the illegal checkpoints set up inside the US. Hell, you can't go from Phoenix to San Diego without dealing with one of those damn things.
DMAC right on but don't waste your breath...the forum Fox News listeners only can count to two amendment wise..the rest are a democrat party plot
DMAC said:
I refer to them as "pigs" because honest people with a decent heart would never cage someone for having 4 empty beer bottles in the back of their truck. Or for having some plant matter on them. Or for just wanting to travel freely in a country that prides itself on being "the home of the free and land of the brave". Good people would be repulsed by such actions and refuse to take part. Peaceful people should not be treated like animals, period. As for smuggling drugs and guns, I happen to believe a person has a right to both those things. And what exactly is the purpose of the 4th amendment anyway if they can just stop you willy-nilly at a checkpoint inside the country and claim some dog smelled drugs and rip your car apart? As to asserting one's rights at the border, if everyone did it they would just have to stop being jackboots because they can't tag everyone and expect that things won't grind to an absolute stop.
I understand why people go along to get along, but that mindset in the American people has created the police-state we have now. It will take a whole lot of non-cooperation and civil disobedience to regain the "land of the free".
Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now. Like I said, I understand that people who want to travel back and forth have a decision to make. I am a little more forgiving of the CPB at the border, but have no time for the illegal checkpoints set up inside the US. Hell, you can't go from Phoenix to San Diego without dealing with one of those damn things.
I refer to them as "pigs" because honest people with a decent heart would never cage someone for having 4 empty beer bottles in the back of their truck. Or for having some plant matter on them. Or for just wanting to travel freely in a country that prides itself on being "the home of the free and land of the brave". Good people would be repulsed by such actions and refuse to take part. Peaceful people should not be treated like animals, period. As for smuggling drugs and guns, I happen to believe a person has a right to both those things. And what exactly is the purpose of the 4th amendment anyway if they can just stop you willy-nilly at a checkpoint inside the country and claim some dog smelled drugs and rip your car apart? As to asserting one's rights at the border, if everyone did it they would just have to stop being jackboots because they can't tag everyone and expect that things won't grind to an absolute stop.
I understand why people go along to get along, but that mindset in the American people has created the police-state we have now. It will take a whole lot of non-cooperation and civil disobedience to regain the "land of the free".
Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now. Like I said, I understand that people who want to travel back and forth have a decision to make. I am a little more forgiving of the CPB at the border, but have no time for the illegal checkpoints set up inside the US. Hell, you can't go from Phoenix to San Diego without dealing with one of those damn things.
It is quite obvious that you live in a fantasy that only you and your sympathizers believe we have traveled extensively and have never had a bad encounter with the police if we are stopped we simply are polite if we deserve a citation we take it and we are on our way we don't call him a pig which we believe you wouldn't dare do in person you just talk but that is your right so you if you go around with drugs or carry firearms illegally that is fine you suffer the consequences if you believe as your post indicates then it is no mystery as to why you find yourself in predicaments and in trouble with the law the law is the law and law abiding law respecting citizens have no problems as they walk thru life you if you continue to exist in your world of fantasys will one day wake up and say and wounder what happened
It is quite obvious that you live in a fantasy that only you and your sympathizers believe we have traveled extensively and have never had a bad encounter with the police if we are stopped we simply are polite if we deserve a citation we take it and we are on our way we don't call him a pig which we believe you wouldn't dare do in person you just talk but that is your right so you if you go around with drugs or carry firearms illegally that is fine you suffer the consequences if you believe as your post indicates then it is no mystery as to why you find yourself in predicaments and in trouble with the law the law is the law and law abiding law respecting citizens have no problems as they walk thru life you if you continue to exist in your world of fantasys will one day wake up and say and wounder what happened
No I don't pick fights with violent people who have firearms and pretty much a carte blanche to kill whoever they want. However, they are pigs and if they don't realize it, hopefully they'll have an epiphany someday and try to endeavor to do something productive with their lives. I actually don't say a whole lot when I deal with the pigs. I generally exercise my Fifth Amendment rights. Nothing good comes out of talking to the pigs.
No I don't pick fights with violent people who have firearms and pretty much a carte blanche to kill whoever they want. However, they are pigs and if they don't realize it, hopefully they'll have an epiphany someday and try to endeavor to do something productive with their lives. I actually don't say a whole lot when I deal with the pigs. I generally exercise my Fifth Amendment rights. Nothing good comes out of talking to the pigs.
The prisons here in NM as well as thru out the states are crowded with individuals that speak as you do that one day found themselves in a position that they had to shall we say back their talk up with as you say the pigs I wish you well as you continue your journey it has the appearances that it will be very troublesome and full of obstacles that you will not be able to suppress and overcome and will find yourself being controlled by the very ones as you call them the pigs and that as per your posts will find it impossible to bare that cross
The prisons here in NM as well as thru out the states are crowded with individuals that speak as you do that one day found themselves in a position that they had to shall we say back their talk up with as you say the pigs I wish you well as you continue your journey it has the appearances that it will be very troublesome and full of obstacles that you will not be able to suppress and overcome and will find yourself being controlled by the very ones as you call them the pigs and that as per your posts will find it impossible to bare that cross
Sil.
The prisons in this country are generally filled with peaceful people who did nothing more than possess something the hypocritical politicians think that they have the power and right to prevent them from having. A good number of others have been railroaded by the pigs and end up there. The only way to really protect yourself and others when it comes to the pigs is to video tape them whenever you encounter them. Video evidence has been used to keep innocent people out of prison and also to help hold to account those pigs who initiated undue violence on other people.
Most people who have fought for civil rights in this country ended up in jail. It's the price that people who really value freedom sometimes have to pay.
Now Jerry....quit :stir:.....we all know you're a rat fink pinko commie liberal...but even you're not that "off the wall"!!!!
Silvia...please...I want to read your posts...but use some punctuation...you know, like a period when you end a sentence or thought...my eyes and brain are hurting from trying to decipher what you're trying to say! If you read some of the posts on here, you'll find that some of the regulars have some off the wall ideas....or post just to stir things up (like me sometimes)......but not visiting Puerto Penasco because you read some off the wall posts is as ridiculous as some of the stuff DMAC is touting! Look at some of the other threads on the forum with the people reporting enjoying themselves during recent visits, and all the great photos being posted!
DMAC....you sound like you're stuck back in the 70's and 80's (or is it 60's and 70's).... pigs, police state.....really????.....if you have problems with what is going on at border checkpoints, don't take it out on the shmucks who have to man them....try sitting out there and having to ask the same stupid questions, wearing body armor in the sun and heat....and having idiots mouth off to you...how would you react? I'm sure you would continue to be pleasant and have a smile on your face. Take it up with the head of Homeland Security, your congressional reps and Jerry's "man" Obama! And your comment "As for smuggling drugs and guns, I happen to believe a person has a right to both those things"....REALLY? Then get the laws changed. Same thing with the open container law.....
DMAC....you sound like you're stuck back in the 70's and 80's (or is it 60's and 70's).... pigs, police state.....really????.....if you have problems with what is going on at border checkpoints, don't take it out on the shmucks who have to man them....try sitting out there and having to ask the same stupid questions, wearing body armor in the sun and heat....and having idiots mouth off to you...how would you react? I'm sure you would continue to be pleasant and have a smile on your face. Take it up with the head of Homeland Security, your congressional reps and Jerry's "man" Obama! And your comment "As for smuggling drugs and guns, I happen to believe a person has a right to both those things"....REALLY? Then get the laws changed. Same thing with the open container law.....
Respectfully Joe, the people back in the 60's had better awareness than we have now. Years of police and military fetishism has led to people believing that the cops are good guys, that wars are necessary, that force is the preferred way of solving every problem.... I could go on but look at the message in the 60s vs the message of today and tell me as a society we have not devolved.
As for those schmucks out there, if they had some respect for their fellow humans and some self-respect themselves, they would refuse to engage in such counter productive activity. I take a rather biblical view of tax collectors and police (which is kinda funny because I'm an atheist) and think that these people should be treated as untouchables because what they do should be viewed as anti-social. I don't mouth off to them, I just assert my rights as a US citizen. I refuse to co-operate and that is my right. As for drugs and checkpoints, what good does it do to change the law when the government does not care about the law? You want to point to me where in the US Constitution it grants the feds the power to outlaw drugs or enforce those laws? The checkpoints seem to violate the 4th Amendment and the USSC seems not to care. Sure, changing laws would be nice, but often the government does not care. Voters here in AZ voted 3 times to legalize medical cannabis and were thwarted by the state government at every step along the way. Now that the voters have finally cornered the state government, the feds are stepping in to thwart the will of the people. You seem to be under the illusion that your vote matters, that we have an honest democracy here in the US and that the laws that have been passed in this country have been done so with the consent of the governed. That's a crazy idea my friend, and I do say that respectfully.
The prisons here in NM as well as thru out the states are crowded with individuals that speak as you do that one day found themselves in a position that they had to shall we say back their talk up with as you say the pigs I wish you well as you continue your journey it has the appearances that it will be very troublesome and full of obstacles that you will not be able to suppress and overcome and will find yourself being controlled by the very ones as you call them the pigs and that as per your posts will find it impossible to bare that cross
I'm sorry to say DMAC...that if I felt the way you do about the state of this country....the laws...my vote...I'd either go out and shoot myself...or find another country to live in!
Ok...enlighten me..."biblical view" of police????? I must have missed that chapter....
I'm sorry to say DMAC...that if I felt the way you do about the state of this country....the laws...my vote...I'd either go out and shoot myself...or find another country to live in!
Ok...enlighten me..."biblical view" of police????? I must have missed that chapter....
I'm patiently waiting for the time I can escape this country. I don't have much hope for it, sad to say.
As for the biblical view of the police, generally speaking the "police" of the New Testament were both Romans and Jews cooperating with the Romans and those were the guys who rounded up Jesus and nailed him to a cross. They were just doing their job too. Schmucks just doing their job by caging and killing peaceful people is as old as time itself sad to say.
The prisons here in NM as well as thru out the states are crowded with individuals that speak as you do that one day found themselves in a position that they had to shall we say back their talk up with as you say the pigs I wish you well as you continue your journey it has the appearances that it will be very troublesome and full of obstacles that you will not be able to suppress and overcome and will find yourself being controlled by the very ones as you call them the pigs and that as per your posts will find it impossible to bare that cross
Sil.
Let me start by saying that I haven't referred to police as pigs since 1970. When I read your comment about the crowded prisons, that little counter-culture rebel that still inhabits a little corner of my psyche, screamed "Those prisons would be less crowded if the pigs weren't so power-mad, trigger-happy and quick to make an arrest...any arrest".
Aside from that, Silvia, it's too bad you've decided Rocky Point isn't for you, but something about the reasons for your decision don't ring quite true. Almost as if you really weren't gonna come down anyway. Perhaps you have a little extra time on your hands and just wanted to interact on the forum?
The prisons here in NM as well as thru out the states are crowded with individuals that speak as you do that one day found themselves in a position that they had to shall we say back their talk up with as you say the pigs I wish you well as you continue your journey it has the appearances that it will be very troublesome and full of obstacles that you will not be able to suppress and overcome and will find yourself being controlled by the very ones as you call them the pigs and that as per your posts will find it impossible to bare that cross
No I don't pick fights with violent people who have firearms and pretty much a carte blanche to kill whoever they want. However, they are pigs and if they don't realize it, hopefully they'll have an epiphany someday and try to endeavor to do something productive with their lives. I actually don't say a whole lot when I deal with the pigs. I generally exercise my Fifth Amendment rights. Nothing good comes out of talking to the pigs.
Silva from the honest Libertarian Right(Mr. Moore) to the commie left (well, me) the complaints about the militarization of the American Police,the growth of the prison industry (America number one in incarcerations baby!) and the general stomping on our constitution over the last 10 years because 21 Saudi bus boys with box cutters scared a unprepared George Bush into going all Mussolini on the world (yep us included) then the smartest guy in the class (Obama) takes over and sucks up to the same war and prision machine and here we are....America the unfree where big brother isn't just watching he's got his hand in your underwear!
Silvia said:
The prisons here in NM as well as thru out the states are crowded with individuals that speak as you do that one day found themselves in a position that they had to shall we say back their talk up with as you say the pigs I wish you well as you continue your journey it has the appearances that it will be very troublesome and full of obstacles that you will not be able to suppress and overcome and will find yourself being controlled by the very ones as you call them the pigs and that as per your posts will find it impossible to bare that cross
Funny!!!!...over the last 40 years thanks to the war on drugs every black man,Mexican -American and anglo counter-culture type have gotten or just missed being nailed by the state with a drug felony.It's a hard row to hoe having a felony on your back in modern America.
PitiquitoRosy said:
Let me start by saying that I haven't referred to police as pigs since 1970. When I read your comment about the crowded prisons, that little counter-culture rebel that still inhabits a little corner of my psyche, screamed "Those prisons would be less crowded if the pigs weren't so power-mad, trigger-happy and quick to make an arrest...any arrest".
Aside from that, Silvia, it's too bad you've decided Rocky Point isn't for you, but something about the reasons for your decision don't ring quite true. Almost as if you really weren't gonna come down anyway. Perhaps you have a little extra time on your hands and just wanted to interact on the forum?
When they passed and started using the "no knock" law there was still some civil disobedience going on, but we never had a chance against that (pun intended) door opener.
Funny!!!!...over the last 40 years thanks to the war on drugs every black man,Mexican -American and anglo counter-culture type have gotten or just missed being nailed by the state with a drug felony.It's a hard row to hoe having a felony on your back in modern America.
Yep, even some of our right wing "conservative" friends on this forum could be consider outlaws. Right Stuart?..:o
As entertaining as this discussion has become it is now the proper hour of this fine day that we were blessed with to go to one of our fine mexican eating establishments we will be seated in an hour having one of our favorite dishes taquitos with two big scoops of guacamole piled high on each of three of them with rice and the finest beans in all of NM you may think of us in said hour if we I can find the time in this sunny day I upon return I will attempt to address some of your concerns that is assuming that as some of you members refer to these individuals that are protecting us all pigs don't take us to the NM prison now our lunch early dinner awaits us please think of us in said hour
As entertaining as this discussion has become, it is now the proper hour of this fine day that we were blessed with to go to one of our fine mexican eating establishments.We will be seated in an hour having one of our favorite dishes, taquitos with two big scoops of guacamole piled high on each of three of them, with rice and the finest beans in all of NM.You may think of us in said hour, if we I (???)can find the time in this sunny day, I, upon return, I will attempt to address some of your concerns, that is, assuming that as some of you members refer to, these individuals that are protecting us all, pigs, don't take us to the NM prison.Now our lunch, early dinner awaits us.Please think of us in said hour.
We will be seated in an hour having one of our favorite dishes, taquitos with two big scoops of guacamole piled high on each of three of them, with rice and the finest beans in all of NM.You may think of us in said hour
OK, I'm thinking about you right now at 12:21 and my thought is after spending 7 years in N.M. myself and love the food there, why in the hell are you eating taquitos instead of some Carne adobada with some Sopaipilla's for desert?
Ordinarily I stick with my resolve to use this forum solely for recreational and educational purposes related to Rocky Point and surrounding areas, but just for a couple of minutes I'm going to jump up on the soapbox DMAC recently abandoned and put some points on the board for people who prefer their rants seasoned with facts and logic
I'm always hearing our prisons are overcrowded because people who are otherwise innocent are being incarcerated for minor drug possessions. I just now searched the internet for government statistics on that subject and found them elusive, but I did uncover this article from Slate.com. Five myths about prison growth. - Slate Magazine. In prisons, not jails, 50% of inmates are there for violent crimes and 20% are there for property crimes. Only 20% are in for drug offenses, and these are mostly for distribution, not mere possession. The median time served for a prison inmate in the U.S. is 2 years. The principal impact of drug laws on increased prison populations is the role of prior convictions in determining sentencing. When a dirtbag breaks his girlfriend's jaw or pulls a knife on a store clerk, a prior arrest rfor drugs will make it more likely, and sometimes mandatory, that he will receive a prison sentence instead of probation with counseling.
I should point out that Slate.com is not Fox News.
Another thing I'm always hearing is that Americans are incarceration-happy because we've locked up a greater percentage of our population than any other country on the planet. But if you look closer at this subject, you should see it as a source of pride since it reflects a government that endeavors to protect its people regardless of race, ethnicity or wealth. Much has been made of disproportionately higher arrest and incarceration rates for blacks and Hispanics, but that overlooks the fact that most crime victims suffer at the hands of members of their own race or ethnic group and thus are the principal beneficiaries from arrests and incarcerations of criminals from their own neighborhoods. If America's criminal justice system ignored crime against minorities and the poor, arrest and incarceration rates among minorities and the poor would surely drop sharply. Would that be a more progressive approach?
In discussions of crime in Mexico, I often see references to the "impunity rate," meaning the percentage of reported serious crimes that go unpunished. In Mexico the impunity rate is always reported at around 95-98% depending on the time period and entity reporting it. In other words, if you commit rape, murder or robbery in Mexico, the odds you will ever be punished by the law are 2 to 5%. Statistics are similar for most Latin American countries. (I've tried to find out the impunity rate in the U.S. and European countries for comparison but can't find it. I'd be grateful if someone digs it up.) I believe a major reason for Latin America's high impunity rate has to do with Latin America's philosophical orientation toward government in general and criminal justice in particular. It seems that in Latin America, government officials' concept of law enforcement is ensuring that the government is being obeyed. Protection of the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for the average citizen doesn't seem to be a priority, possibly because the citizens who matter most to the government are hiring their own private security forces anyway. I'm encouraged by the demands of Mexico's citizens for better protectionfor the average person against gangs, kidnappers and serial killers, but I fear that the government will dismiss their protests and demands as just another element of the white noise that Mexico City's incessant protests and demonstrations have become.
My intention is not to say the U.S. is good and Mexico is bad, but I would encourage everyone to reflect on what we truly have here in the U.S. Some will always want to characterize the U.S. as a police state. That's fine, except that since English is routinely taught to school children throughout most of the world (excluding Mexico), people from all over the world may be reading this stuff and wondering how much of it can be believed. I wanted to offer some clarifying remarks.
And to DMAC, I would suggest that you keep right on challenging those police states wherever you find them, preferably by asserting in Mexico the inalienable rights you feel you have to possessing guns and in the U.S. your right to possess drugs. Then, when you can find internet access wherever you end up next, write us a comparison of what happened in the two cases with respect to knowing the charges against you, availabilty of competent legal counsel if you cannot afford it, swift and speedy trial, presumption of innocence and professionalism in the corrections system. We Americans always aspire to self-improvement, and your thoughts will be invaluable to us.
My car broke down today! As I was pushing it to the side a guy stops and asks did your car break down? Nope its such a nice day thought I take my car for a walk!
OK, I'm thinking about you right now at 12:21 and my thought is after spending 7 years in N.M. myself and love the food there, why in the hell are you eating taquitos instead of some Carne adobada with some Sopaipilla's for desert?
Mr Kenny if I may address you as such NM is a beauitfull state and the servings are superb through out the state we I prefer taquitos when they are prepared as to what we enjoyed this day at said hour carne adobada and sopaipillas are excellent as well and the menus are to search for Mr Joe if I may address you as such or if you prefer Joseph please advise regarding yours and other posters concerning the readability of my readings re periods and other symbols I find no difficulty in comprehending such in said day light hour Mrs pitiquitorosy if I may address you as such that is a interesting call name how did it come into existance what position do you represent in rocky point and for your information we have not had intentions on planning a visit to rocky point we are simply considering all of what is posted on this entire forum we were advised that in the last few days a prominant doctor in nogales sonora mexico was gunned down and killed just across the border from nogales arizona this we are aware that this is some distance from rocky point however it is in the state of sonora mexico again for your information this does not frighten us is just another point to consider in closing this version we did arrive at our destination safely and did return to our residence in same condition as when we left and we were not taken as some of posters say by the pigs to jail or elsewhere and we passed some in very nice uniforms if I may say to those of you that pick up that pig cross I wish you well for it is overbearing
Funny!!!!...over the last 40 years thanks to the war on drugs every black man,Mexican -American and anglo counter-culture type have gotten or just missed being nailed by the state with a drug felony.It's a hard row to hoe having a felony on your back in modern America.
Too true, layer on the the Mad Mothers and DUI Laws, and the percentage of the population with a criminal record continues to escalate.
Knock....knock....Silvia....is anybody home????? Do you have something against punctuation? You know, periods, commas, question marks, etc.??????? Is it against your religion, or political beliefs? I was going to count the number of words in your post without any punctuation, but quit after I got to the fourth line.....
Case closed in death of former participant at Buddhist retreat - Arizona Range News: News 10 miles from the New Mexico line Goddess Kali worshiping ,bloody sword dancing naked among 100s of others cult member died in a cave 1 mile from my ranch. So I guess you can't go to Arizona either. Check out my comment after the story which quotes me saying the cops screwed this up.They are dodging lcivil charges for botching the rescue so covering stuff up is the name of the game.
Silvia said:
Mr Kenny if I may address you as such NM is a beauitfull state and the servings are superb through out the state we I prefer taquitos when they are prepared as to what we enjoyed this day at said hour carne adobada and sopaipillas are excellent as well and the menus are to search for Mr Joe if I may address you as such or if you prefer Joseph please advise regarding yours and other posters concerning the readability of my readings re periods and other symbols I find no difficulty in comprehending such in said day light hour Mrs pitiquitorosy if I may address you as such that is a interesting call name how did it come into existance what position do you represent in rocky point and for your information we have not had intentions on planning a visit to rocky point we are simply considering all of what is posted on this entire forum we were advised that in the last few days a prominant doctor in nogales sonora mexico was gunned down and killed just across the border from nogales arizona this we are aware that this is some distance from rocky point however it is in the state of sonora mexico again for your information this does not frighten us is just another point to consider in closing this version we did arrive at our destination safely and did return to our residence in same condition as when we left and we were not taken as some of posters say by the pigs to jail or elsewhere and we passed some in very nice uniforms if I may say to those of you that pick up that pig cross I wish you well for it is overbearing
Mr Kenny if I may address you as such NM is a beauitfull state and the servings are superb through out the state we I prefer taquitos when they are prepared as to what we enjoyed this day at said hour carne adobada and sopaipillas are excellent as well and the menus are to search for Mr Joe if I may address you as such or if you prefer Joseph please advise regarding yours and other posters concerning the readability of my readings re periods and other symbols I find no difficulty in comprehending such in said day light hour Mrs pitiquitorosy if I may address you as such that is a interesting call name how did it come into existance what position do you represent in rocky point and for your information we have not had intentions on planning a visit to rocky point we are simply considering all of what is posted on this entire forum we were advised that in the last few days a prominant doctor in nogales sonora mexico was gunned down and killed just across the border from nogales arizona this we are aware that this is some distance from rocky point however it is in the state of sonora mexico again for your information this does not frighten us is just another point to consider in closing this version we did arrive at our destination safely and did return to our residence in same condition as when we left and we were not taken as some of posters say by the pigs to jail or elsewhere and we passed some in very nice uniforms if I may say to those of you that pick up that pig cross I wish you well for it is overbearing
If she's not planning on going down, why is she asking on another thread for the names & phone #'s for the r.v. parks? Then asks about fishing licenses? I've only read two threads today & she's on both. I'm exhausted, & my eyes hurt.
Well in the real world people buy weed and sell weed to get free weed.It's the free enterprise system.Other people that are bad men try to rob these pyramind marketers so everybody guns up.Once you get a felony you can't get a job so you branch out into other crime. From Time Magazine
"
Here are the facts. The U.S. has 760 prisoners per 100,000 citizens. That's not just many more than in most other developed countries but seven to 10 times as many. Japan has 63 per 100,000, Germany has 90, France has 96, South Korea has 97, and Britain--with a rate among the highest--has 153. Even developing countries that are well known for their crime problems have a third of U.S. numbers. Mexico has 208 prisoners per 100,000 citizens, and Brazil has 242. As Robertson pointed out on his TV show, The 700 Club, "We here in America make up 5% of the world's population but we make up 25% of the [world's] jailed prisoners."
And you guys really think this is a good thing? my guess is the only way you know the Fox crowd can stay in power is to give all us fun loving people and race mixers a felony so we can't vote. Oh also bro, no weed smoker ever broke his girlfriends jaws while stoned that's legal alcohol style partying.
Ordinarily I stick with my resolve to use this forum solely for recreational and educational purposes related to Rocky Point and surrounding areas, but just for a couple of minutes I'm going to jump up on the soapbox DMAC recently abandoned and put some points on the board for people who prefer their rants seasoned with facts and logic
Whoa can't wait for the "facts and logic"
audsley said:
I'm always hearing our prisons are overcrowded because people who are otherwise innocent are being incarcerated for minor drug possessions. I just now searched the internet for government statistics on that subject and found them elusive, but I did uncover this article from Slate.com. Five myths about prison growth. - Slate Magazine. In prisons, not jails, 50% of inmates are there for violent crimes and 20% are there for property crimes. Only 20% are in for drug offenses, and these are mostly for distribution, not mere possession. The median time served for a prison inmate in the U.S. is 2 years. The principal impact of drug laws on increased prison populations is the role of prior convictions in determining sentencing. When a dirtbag breaks his girlfriend's jaw or pulls a knife on a store clerk, a prior arrest rfor drugs will make it more likely, and sometimes mandatory, that he will receive a prison sentence instead of probation with counseling.
Wow, that is awesome that you did an internet search. Did it happen to figure into your mind that people locked up in jail might figure they are no better off that those in "prison"? Most states keep prisons for offenses above 2 years and jails for below that threshold. So by removing jails you basically removed the lowest rung on the ladder, which would be simple possession. Would it make you feel better if you had to spend a weekend in a jail as opposed to a prison? I'm thinking not.
audsley said:
I should point out that Slate.com is not Fox News.
How very cosmopolitan of you! Give yourself a pat on the back from taking a break from the Sean Hannity show! Now back to reality, the arrest rate for simple possession is about 450 / 100,000. In the private prison / court / police complex this represent s a butt load of money. I mean the money you would have to work really hard at to convince people your product was really good in order to sell it. Fortunately for the prison/industrial/pig complex they have people like you who don't really give a flying "F" about the rights of other people so long as you can relax in your easy chair and watch "Cops" at night.
audsley said:
Another thing I'm always hearing is that Americans are incarceration-happy because we've locked up a greater percentage of our population than any other country on the planet. But if you look closer at this subject, you should see it as a source of pride since it reflects a government that endeavors to protect its people regardless of race, ethnicity or wealth. Much has been made of disproportionately higher arrest and incarceration rates for blacks and Hispanics, but that overlooks the fact that most crime victims suffer at the hands of members of their own race or ethnic group and thus are the principal beneficiaries from arrests and incarcerations of criminals from their own neighborhoods. If America's criminal justice system ignored crime against minorities and the poor, arrest and incarceration rates among minorities and the poor would surely drop sharply. Would that be a more progressive approach?
Wow, I have never looked at it that way. I mean, by that measure we're only second to North Korean in terms of protecting our population. You're right though, it we allowed people to drive around with empty beer bottles in the back seat and let them have cannabis, lord knows what kind of mayhem would ensue! Thank goodness we have the pigs to keep us safe from ourselves.
audsley said:
In discussions of crime in Mexico, I often see references to the "impunity rate," meaning the percentage of reported serious crimes that go unpunished. In Mexico the impunity rate is always reported at around 95-98% depending on the time period and entity reporting it. In other words, if you commit rape, murder or robbery in Mexico, the odds you will ever be punished by the law are 2 to 5%. Statistics are similar for most Latin American countries. (I've tried to find out the impunity rate in the U.S. and European countries for comparison but can't find it. I'd be grateful if someone digs it up.) I believe a major reason for Latin America's high impunity rate has to do with Latin America's philosophical orientation toward government in general and criminal justice in particular. It seems that in Latin America, government officials' concept of law enforcement is ensuring that the government is being obeyed. Protection of the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for the average citizen doesn't seem to be a priority, possibly because the citizens who matter most to the government are hiring their own private security forces anyway. I'm encouraged by the demands of Mexico's citizens for better protectionfor the average person against gangs, kidnappers and serial killers, but I fear that the government will dismiss their protests and demands as just another element of the white noise that Mexico City's incessant protests and demonstrations have become.
I am not for a Mexican-style government, but I do hold a country who supposedly is founded on "life, libery and the pursuit of happiness" to a higher ideal. With regards to the comparison, it seems that in Mexico you have no legal rights but the folks there are willing to grant you normal human consideration, and in the US you supposedly have legal rights and they grant you absolutely no human consideration. Pick your poison. I know for me I prefer the Mexican style to the American one.
audsley said:
My intention is not to say the U.S. is good and Mexico is bad, but I would encourage everyone to reflect on what we truly have here in the U.S. Some will always want to characterize the U.S. as a police state. That's fine, except that since English is routinely taught to school children throughout most of the world (excluding Mexico), people from all over the world may be reading this stuff and wondering how much of it can be believed. I wanted to offer some clarifying remarks.
The US is a indeed a police state and if you are too stupid to realize that, forget learning anything regarding language because the police want you to stay right where you are.
audsley said:
And to DMAC, I would suggest that you keep right on challenging those police states wherever you find them, preferably by asserting in Mexico the inalienable rights you feel you have to possessing guns and in the U.S. your right to possess drugs. Then, when you can find internet access wherever you end up next, write us a comparison of what happened in the two cases with respect to knowing the charges against you, availabilty of competent legal counsel if you cannot afford it, swift and speedy trial, presumption of innocence and professionalism in the corrections system. We Americans always aspire to self-improvement, and your thoughts will be invaluable to us.
Nice, your kind of Americans are smug feeling that you're superior to the rest of the world, despite the fact that aided by dullards like yourself, the US has decended to probably the worst police state next to North Korea. Get over your self-important rah-rah, US BS and get real. This country if F'd up and if you don't recoginize that then you're part of the problem.
With your views on life I might as well give my 4 year old pot. I guess we know what all the smart people on here are smoking.
I drink beer, wine, vodka, gin, bourbon, Scotch, smoke cigars (Cuban) and have sex.
I guess with views like that you should get your 4 year old some beer, wine, vodka, gin, bourbon, Scotch, a cigar and a hooker. I mean, if it's good for an adult it must be good for a 4 year old, right? Or were you implying that the govt should treat fully grown individuals as 4 year olds? I have a hard time following the arguments of dullards.
Amen audsley! DMAC enjoy your guns and dope. You know that old saying if you go looking for trouble you'll find it? I hope you find it.
I'm a peaceful person. I don't go looking for trouble, any more that a woman walking alone a night is asking to get raped. If the pigs stop me for no good reason, they're the ones looking for trouble, not me.
Oh wait you can now go and say your arm hurts and that will qualify you for a medical maj card. Must make it ok as long as you are 18 right?
I don't ask for permission for what is already a right of mine. Nobody has the right to tell me what food I can eat, what drink I can drink or what I can take as far as medicine. Did that whole "people endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights" thing just go right over your head?
Sorry but let me know where pot is totally legal in the US without some kind of ailment and get back to me.
Yeah, and back in 1930s Germany it was totally illegal to be a Jew. Oh yeah, and back in 1760 it was totally illegal to be a runaway slave. And also for women to own property or vote. Should I go on? You want to play the "hey, it's the law" game, I can give you a million examples all the way back to Jesus being nailed on a cross for breaking "the law". That is the domain of idiots who carry out the worst atrocities of mankind so congratulations, here's your sign:
What does any of that have to do with todays laws? I guess its ok to go out and kill someone as long as it suits your needs right? Some of the smartest people I know are potheads but they lack common sense.
What does any of that have to do with todays laws? I guess its ok to go out and kill someone as long as it suits your needs right? Some of the smartest people I know are potheads but they lack common sense.
OK I wish I could draw this out with crayons so you could understand it but the whole point is that just because some idiot wrote a law down on paper and got other people to go along with it does not make it right, moral or ethical. There is a long history of immoral, unethical and downright stupid laws. So saying "hey, it's the law" is no argument whatsoever. Also, there is no comparison to killing someone and smoking pot. When you trespass on your neighbor, you are committing a crime that is understandable to everyone because there is a victim. When you are smoking pot, you have no victim. The difference is protecting someone's right to life in the case of murder, and infringing on someone's right to self-determination by locking them up for using a substance that some corrupt and unethical individual made illegal.
DMAC....in one post you say you are an atheist, but you keep bringing up Jesus, scripture, and even using phrases that are "biblical" (Trespass on your neighbor)....so what are you? A "fallen" priest or minister....or still trying to come to terms with your atheism? Just wondering?
DMAC....in one post you say you are an atheist, but you keep bringing up Jesus, scripture, and even using phrases that are "biblical" (Trespass on your neighbor)....so what are you? A "fallen" priest or minister....or still trying to come to terms with your atheism? Just wondering?
No, I was raised in the Roman church but I find that people who feel the need to control other people's lives generally have some sort of religious belief behind their sanctimoniousness so I try to use terms in which they can relate to. If I start quoting John Locke or Adam Smith or Francis Bacon I am likely to lose their attention. People who cling to superstition are not generally guided by reason, so you need to return to superstition to bring them to reason.
Just maybe there are people out there who do not pick and choose which laws they will obey....but if they disagree with a particular one, they approach it a different way then what you seem to be proposing...they try to change the laws, since they still believe that the "system" can and does work.....that does not make them sanctimonious, superstitious, or warranting your attack.....I'm surprised you haven't called anyone a nazi yet! One person's "reason" is another person's "madness"!
Yeah, and back in 1930s Germany it was totally illegal to be a Jew. Oh yeah, and back in 1760 it was totally illegal to be a runaway slave. And also for women to own property or vote. Should I go on? You want to play the "hey, it's the law" game, I can give you a million examples all the way back to Jesus being nailed on a cross for breaking "the law". That is the domain of idiots who carry out the worst atrocities of mankind so congratulations, here's your sign:
Just maybe there are people out there who do not pick and choose which laws they will obey....but if they disagree with a particular one, they approach it a different way then what you seem to be proposing...they try to change the laws, since they still believe that the "system" can and does work.....that does not make them sanctimonious, superstitious, or warranting your attack.....I'm surprised you haven't called anyone a nazi yet! One person's "reason" is another person's "madness"!
We all choose what laws we're going to obey Joe. You must know that.
Just maybe there are people out there who do not pick and choose which laws they will obey....but if they disagree with a particular one, they approach it a different way then what you seem to be proposing...they try to change the laws, since they still believe that the "system" can and does work.....that does not make them sanctimonious, superstitious, or warranting your attack.....I'm surprised you haven't called anyone a nazi yet! One person's "reason" is another person's "madness"!
If you want to control someone else, you're a Nazi ( there you have it). Laws are only valid in that they protect the rights of individuals. Laws that infringe on individual rights, are not valid laws. Would you follow a law that provided you had to hand over a Jew to the state? How about a runaway slave? Idiots think that just because they don't want to use cannabis then they don't need to stand up for the right to use cannabis are like people who are not Jews in 1930s Germany choosing not to interfere with the law because they seemingly don't have a stake in it. People who stand by and cheer on peaceful people being locked in cages should feel ashamed of themselves. I honestly don't know why they don't, but as you see to some people "the law is that law".
If you want to control someone else, you're a Nazi ( there you have it). Laws are only valid in that they protect the rights of individuals. Laws that infringe on individual rights, are not valid laws. Would you follow a law that provided you had to hand over a Jew to the state? How about a runaway slave? Idiots think that just because they don't want to use cannabis then they don't need to stand up for the right to use cannabis are like people who are not Jews in 1930s Germany choosing not to interfere with the law because they seemingly don't have a stake in it. People who stand by and cheer on peaceful people being locked in cages should feel ashamed of themselves. I honestly don't know why they don't, but as you see to some people "the law is that law".
I'm not going to try to convince you that your "reason" is "madness" to me, just like I wouldn't try to convince a fundamentalist religious type the "madness" of his thinking. It's not possible!
I'm not going to try to convince you that your "reason" is "madness" to me, just like I wouldn't try to convince a fundamentalist religious type the "madness" of his thinking. It's not possible!
I suspect that is because you have no reason. If you want to be an apologists for people who think it's OK to lock up peaceful people, then do so, don't beat around the bush about it.
We all choose what laws we're going to obey Joe. You must know that.
I agree Kenny....but I also weigh the consequences, and make that conscious decision to do so. I don't go ranting and raving that the people (the cops/prosecutors) who may enforce those laws are pigs, and that the system is broken and doesn't work!
I suspect that is because you have no reason. If you want to be an apologists for people who think it's OK to lock up peaceful people, then do so, don't beat around the bush about it.
Jerry and I have known our friend Joe here for years, and we've seen him struggle with his right wing conservative ways many times. I've seem him have moments of clarity, but he shakes it off... I think it scares him.
I suspect that is because you have no reason. If you want to be an apologists for people who think it's OK to lock up peaceful people, then do so, don't beat around the bush about it.
I don't need to quote various authors or the bible....to show I can think. I also don't need to call people names, or try to belittle them....
