Do you have more than $2000 in cash?

Going down last Friday at the American checkpoint at the border they asked if I had more than $2000 in cash. Used to be $10,000. When did it change?

it didn't change, agent can ask you anything and do a search. You are obligated to report if you are taking more then 10k out of the country, lower than that you don't have to but agents whants to know why would you take 2k into mexico, things like that, looking for hesitation in answer. At the port of exit you are not protected by constitution. this is the reason why I have hidden camera rolling inside my car.

Yup, consensual conversation and custodial investigation.

You "owe" them no answers- however, civility is a basic skill that typically takes people much farther in life than being an asshole does.

Remember - you are well within your basic human rights (if not your Constitutional rights) to say nothing but "Am I under arrest, or am I free to go?" and doing so puts the burden on them to decide whether to detain you without probable cause, or to let you go on your merry way...

But man, they get PISSED when you do that; and pissing off dudes with guns...? yeah, not my thing.

Remember - you are well within your basic human rights (if not your Constitutional rights) to say nothing but "Am I under arrest, or am I free to go?" and doing so puts the burden on them to decide whether to detain you without probable cause, or to let you go on your merry way...

I did this once when I was going into nogales mexico. They ordered me to pull over, when I was out agent ordered me to sit on the ground and was very rude, treated me like a criminal, then they checked my car. One of the agents took my cell phone and he was looking trough my messages, other agent look if I have any photos on my digital camera. 10 minutes later, they gave me my passport back and the supervisor came out and was all angry, and he was like giving me the comon thing they say, "you are making these agents work harder, they are here to protect america, but people like you make it so harder" bla bla bla. After this, I installed hidden camera in my car.

Eduardo said:

I did this once when I was going into nogales mexico. They ordered me to pull over, when I was out agent ordered me to sit on the ground and was very rude, treated me like a criminal, then they checked my car. One of the agents took my cell phone and he was looking trough my messages, other agent look if I have any photos on my digital camera. 10 minutes later, they gave me my passport back and the supervisor came out and was all angry, and he was like giving me the comon thing they say, "you are making these agents work harder, they are here to protect america, but people like you make it so harder" bla bla bla. After this, I installed hidden camera in my car.

Some of the crap you say comes from further than left field! You sure do get yourself into a lot of weird situations.

Eduardo,
You act like you are the victim..... You're not.... It's people like you that give Americans a bad name. If you don't want to comply with the Mexican rules, then don't come to Mexico. It's that simple.... Argh!

ok E. what is going on? You went from being a Mexico booster two months ago to, well sounding like mr. Moore and me on a bad day I.e. both countries are criminal enterprises preying on us regular guys and everyone else is too stupid to see it

Ladyjeeper said:

Eduardo,
You act like you are the victim..... You're not.... It's people like you that give Americans a bad name. If you don't want to comply with the Mexican rules, then don't come to Mexico. It's that simple.... Argh!

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and cut into Roberto and GV Jack's Carnac routine: The answer is...Mexican-American!

An outsider in two countries, clearly resents and distrusts both governments and thinks he's got both all figured out. Ni de aqui, ni de alla...but an expert on everything.

Get a life Eduardo! Spend all of that energy playing with your kids. The end result will be young adults who behave responsibly.

PitiquitoRosy said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and cut into Roberto and GV Jack's Carnac routine: The answer is...Mexican-American!

An outsider in two countries, clearly resents and distrusts both governments and thinks he's got both all figured out. Ni de aqui, ni de alla...but an expert on everything.

Hmmm..... that must make me "American-Mexican", si? No, that can't be, because I get the distinct impression that a great many people on "that side" of the imaginary line simply see me as a living ATM. Cops in Sonoyta see my big fancy boat, and the ticket books and the radar guns stand at the ready, while "locals" go flying past me on the right-shoulder at 60mph.

To me, "Outsiders" are awesome.

I don't know if "Eduardo" is really "Edward" (the way "Roberto" is really "Bob"), but I do know that nothing differentiates PEOPLE on either side of the border other than native language, possibly skin color, and the presence or lack of a Social Security number.

You all need to cut Eduardo a break- he's just another "whacky conspiracy theorist" who can't understand why he is not allowed to travel wherever he would choose to go, without having to interact with the armed "Defenders of Liberty" along the way.

It's not an unfair question, is it?

Now, I'm not defending his BEHAVIOR - Just as I find pastor Steve and his famous youtube videos to be crass and juvenile, so do I fail to understand the logic of taking one's disdain for the state of the legal and judicial system, and focusing it against individual people... especially minions who probably have not spent 5 minutes trying to understand WHY they even have a "job" in the first place.

I have never found the US (or the Mexican) border agents to be overly hostile- and remember, I have been handcuffed and detained by them- numerous times.

Acouple are a little more "gung-ho" than they probably need to be, but that is a condition of youthful exuberance intensified by the gun strapped to their hip.

Eduardo- you are NEVER going to get a Border Patrol agent to look you in the eye and say "You're right. Why am I doing this?" and then walk away and quit their job; especially by being uncooperative or "righteous" in your open and transparent indignation toward them.

And Rosie- You have to forgive all us crazy, freedom loving Gringos for not wanting to see the same kind of uniformed checkpoints HERE that we (and you) have been forced to live with with THERE.

I would personally rather see the Mexican checkpoints done away with, rather than seeing the US hold them up as an example of "best practices"

If the USA is supposed to represent the PROGRESSIVE way FORWARD for the world (thanks for the keywords, all you Demopublican liberals), then how is taking police, patrol, and enforcement examples from "backward third world nations" (other people's words, not mine) a true and valid example of "forward progress"?

The USA- leading the world in the quest for liberty, by doing the same ass-backward things everyone else is doing.

ooo-rah.

Ladyjeeper said:

If you don't want to comply with the Mexican rules, then don't come to Mexico. It's that simple.... Argh!

Ummmmm.... He was criticizing US policies, not Mexican ones.

Now, if the American agents were confiscating his T-Bones...? THAT would be a different matter, but the Americans never do that, until you are driving THIS way (as opposed the THAT way)


:cruisin:

Robert, you are correct, I misspoke myself. I should have said the American checkpoint. I have never had a problem there as I answer all the questions and smile......Mexico is worth it.....

PitiquitoRosy said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and cut into Roberto and GV Jack's Carnac routine: The answer is...Mexican-American!

An outsider in two countries, clearly resents and distrusts both governments and thinks he's got both all figured out. Ni de aqui, ni de alla...but an expert on everything.

SIII that's why you won't find any of you nicely written articles on the rocky point times or DEFrente, LOL...

Ladyjeeper said:

Robert, you are correct, I misspoke myself. I should have said the American checkpoint. I have never had a problem there as I answer all the questions and smile......Mexico is worth it.....

I agree completely (in spite of the way my "asshole-ish" attitudes come across on this forum , LOL)

playaperro said:

SIII that's why you won't find any of you nicely written articles on the rocky point times or DEFrente, LOL...

For years I had a column in the Rocky Point Times. I don't understand what your point is. My 'nicely written articles' could find a home in lots of places if I had the time to write with more regularity, as I've been asked to. Let me clarify that I don't happen to buy into the fact that everyone with dual citizenship or with cultural roots in both countries is destined to be an outsider. Look, I've known short men who don't suffer (or make the rest of us suffer) from short-man syndrome, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in others.
For the record, I'm not an outsider in either country.

PitiquitoRosy said:

For years I had a column in the Rocky Point Times. I don't understand what your point is. My 'nicely written articles' could find a home in lots of places if I had the time to write with more regularity, as I've been asked to. Let me clarify that I don't happen to buy into the fact that everyone with dual citizenship or with cultural roots in both countries is destined to be an outsider. Look, I've known short men who don't suffer (or make the rest of us suffer) from short-man syndrome, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in others.
For the record, I'm not an outsider in either country.

lol

Can you just feel the love...?

:popcorn:

moore_rb said:

Can you just feel the love...?

:popcorn:

The dogs not happy unless he's nipping at someones heel, kind of like a Chihuahua.:mrgreen:

Kenny said:

The dogs not happy unless he's nipping at someones heel, kind of like a Chihuahua.:mrgreen:

Don't start Kenny, beach sure looks nice today...

moore_rb said:

Hmmm..... that must make me "American-Mexican", si? No, that can't be, because I get the distinct impression that a great many people on "that side" of the imaginary line simply see me as a living ATM. Cops in Sonoyta see my big fancy boat, and the ticket books and the radar guns stand at the ready, while "locals" go flying past me on the right-shoulder at 60mph.

To me, "Outsiders" are awesome.

I don't know if "Eduardo" is really "Edward" (the way "Roberto" is really "Bob"), but I do know that nothing differentiates PEOPLE on either side of the border other than native language, possibly skin color, and the presence or lack of a Social Security number.

You all need to cut Eduardo a break- he's just another "whacky conspiracy theorist" who can't understand why he is not allowed to travel wherever he would choose to go, without having to interact with the armed "Defenders of Liberty" along the way.

It's not an unfair question, is it?

Now, I'm not defending his BEHAVIOR - Just as I find pastor Steve and his famous youtube videos to be crass and juvenile, so do I fail to understand the logic of taking one's disdain for the state of the legal and judicial system, and focusing it against individual people... especially minions who probably have not spent 5 minutes trying to understand WHY they even have a "job" in the first place.

I have never found the US (or the Mexican) border agents to be overly hostile- and remember, I have been handcuffed and detained by them- numerous times.

Acouple are a little more "gung-ho" than they probably need to be, but that is a condition of youthful exuberance intensified by the gun strapped to their hip.

Eduardo- you are NEVER going to get a Border Patrol agent to look you in the eye and say "You're right. Why am I doing this?" and then walk away and quit their job; especially by being uncooperative or "righteous" in your open and transparent indignation toward them.

And Rosie- You have to forgive all us crazy, freedom loving Gringos for not wanting to see the same kind of uniformed checkpoints HERE that we (and you) have been forced to live with with THERE.

I would personally rather see the Mexican checkpoints done away with, rather than seeing the US hold them up as an example of "best practices"

If the USA is supposed to represent the PROGRESSIVE way FORWARD for the world (thanks for the keywords, all you Demopublican liberals), then how is taking police, patrol, and enforcement examples from "backward third world nations" (other people's words, not mine) a true and valid example of "forward progress"?

The USA- leading the world in the quest for liberty, by doing the same ass-backward things everyone else is doing.

ooo-rah.

Funny, Robert, I didn't see...don't see...the similarity between you and Eduardo that you apparently do. I didn't get that he's a "freedom loving Gringo" at all. Nor even much of a conspiracy theorist like you. Certainly a bit paranoid, but he's too scattered in his thoughts to be able to follow (much less formulate) a conspiracy idea, which tend to be complicated. He also strikes me as being mean-spirited
I disagree with you on some points, but I enjoy reading your posts. I think you're giving Eduardo too much credit. The thoughts you ascribe to him here aren't reflected in anything he's written.

playaperro said:

Don't start Kenny, beach sure looks nice today...

I saw what you edited, you put lol in it's place, and though it surprises me, that was a smart move on your part.

Moore said..I have never found the US (or the Mexican) border agents to be overly hostile- and remember, I have been handcuffed and detained by them- numerous times.

I also remember that very recently you said, to paraphrase, it's not very bright to piss of people with guns.

Kenny said:

I also remember that very recently you said, to paraphrase, it's not very bright to piss of people with guns.

Duh.

moore_rb said:

Duh.

I guess it was my mind that said they weren't to bright. Your spin on it the other day had you in denial, I guess LOL You said

"But man, they get PISSED when you do that; and pissing off dudes with guns...? yeah, not my thing.

Kenny said:

I guess it was my mind that said they weren't to bright. Your spin on it the other day had you in denial, I guess LOL You said

Yes I know, you were just joking about your one man show, or whatever it is.

I disagree with you on some points, but I enjoy reading your posts. I think you're giving Eduardo too much credit. The thoughts you ascribe to him here aren't reflected in anything he's written.

He started instant messaging me using a lot of vulgar Mexican slang curse words as if I was living at white fence in east LA, and when I told him that though I only know a little Spanish, I didn't appreciate being called those names. He said that they were words that good friends in Mexico called each other in greeting, and I promptly greeted him with the same words in English, and then some. He then started in on me about how I must be lying about how long I've been going down to Mexico because my Spanish was so poor. I then greeted him in English (with his rules) as if he was my very best long lost friend.

Kenny said:

I guess it was my mind that said they weren't to bright. Your spin on it the other day had you in denial, I guess LOL You said

Ok, against my better judgement, I'm going to go ahead and take a stab at this...


You are contrasting the fact that I said "pissing off dudes with guns...? yeah, not my thing." with the fact that I have been handcuffed and detained by them- numerous times.

Correct?

Is that correlation you are trying to make? that I was "pissing off dudes with guns" and that's why I was cuffed and detained...?

If so, then understand that even during the events where I was asked to exit my truck, and was then handcuffed and detained, it was NEVER because I was behaving un-cooperatively with the BP Agents.

In fact- in all 4 instances where I was cuffed and detained, I was THANKED by them on my way out for being cooperative, and for my patience as they performed their duties...

Does this clear things up?

Kenny said:

He started instant messaging me using a lot of vulgar Mexican slang curse words as if I was living at white fence in east LA, and when I told him that though I only know a little Spanish, I didn't appreciate being called those names. He said that they were words that good friends in Mexico called each other in greeting, and I promptly greeted him with the same words in English, and then some. He then started in on me about how I must be lying about how long I've been going down to Mexico because my Spanish was so poor. I then greeted him in English (with his rules) as if he was my very best long lost friend.

Aw, c'mon, guys! No credit to me for having called it? What did you do to attract such attention, Kenny? I'm starting to think this crap is cyclical...and clinical

moore_rb said:

Ok, against my better judgement, I'm going to go ahead and take a stab at this...


You are contrasting the fact that I said "pissing off dudes with guns...? yeah, not my thing." with the fact that I have been handcuffed and detained by them- numerous times.

Correct?

Is that correlation you are trying to make? that I was "pissing off dudes with guns" and that's why I was cuffed and detained...?

If so, then understand that even during the events where I was asked to exit my truck, and was then handcuffed and detained, it was NEVER because I was behaving un-cooperatively with the BP Agents.

In fact- in all 4 instances where I was cuffed and detained, I was THANKED by them on my way out for being cooperative, and for my patience as they performed their duties...

Does this clear things up?

Is that this what you said to yourself right before you were "detained"? LOL

Ok, against my better judgement, I'm going to go ahead and take a stab at this...

As you well know ,"un-cooperatively" is a matter of judgment. What you consider to be cooperating, might not be someone else idea of what that means.

PitiquitoRosy said:

Aw, c'mon, guys! No credit to me for having called it? What did you do to attract such attention, Kenny? I'm starting to think this crap is cyclical...and clinical

"called it" what Rosie?

PitiquitoRosy said:

Funny, Robert, I didn't see...don't see...the similarity between you and Eduardo that you apparently do. I didn't get that he's a "freedom loving Gringo" at all. Nor even much of a conspiracy theorist like you. Certainly a bit paranoid, but he's too scattered in his thoughts to be able to follow (much less formulate) a conspiracy idea, which tend to be complicated. He also strikes me as being mean-spirited
I disagree with you on some points, but I enjoy reading your posts. I think you're giving Eduardo too much credit.

I think you are correct. :cheers:

moore_rb said:

Hmmm..... that must make me "American-Mexican", si? No, that can't be, because I get the distinct impression that a great many people on "that side" of the imaginary line simply see me as a living ATM. Cops in Sonoyta see my big fancy boat, and the ticket books and the radar guns stand at the ready, while "locals" go flying past me on the right-shoulder at 60mph.

To me, "Outsiders" are awesome.

I don't know if "Eduardo" is really "Edward" (the way "Roberto" is really "Bob"), but I do know that nothing differentiates PEOPLE on either side of the border other than native language, possibly skin color, and the presence or lack of a Social Security number.

You all need to cut Eduardo a break- he's just another "whacky conspiracy theorist" who can't understand why he is not allowed to travel wherever he would choose to go, without having to interact with the armed "Defenders of Liberty" along the way.

It's not an unfair question, is it?

Now, I'm not defending his BEHAVIOR - Just as I find pastor Steve and his famous youtube videos to be crass and juvenile, so do I fail to understand the logic of taking one's disdain for the state of the legal and judicial system, and focusing it against individual people... especially minions who probably have not spent 5 minutes trying to understand WHY they even have a "job" in the first place.

I have never found the US (or the Mexican) border agents to be overly hostile- and remember, I have been handcuffed and detained by them- numerous times.

Acouple are a little more "gung-ho" than they probably need to be, but that is a condition of youthful exuberance intensified by the gun strapped to their hip.

Eduardo- you are NEVER going to get a Border Patrol agent to look you in the eye and say "You're right. Why am I doing this?" and then walk away and quit their job; especially by being uncooperative or "righteous" in your open and transparent indignation toward them.

And Rosie- You have to forgive all us crazy, freedom loving Gringos for not wanting to see the same kind of uniformed checkpoints HERE that we (and you) have been forced to live with with THERE.

I would personally rather see the Mexican checkpoints done away with, rather than seeing the US hold them up as an example of "best practices"

If the USA is supposed to represent the PROGRESSIVE way FORWARD for the world (thanks for the keywords, all you Demopublican liberals), then how is taking police, patrol, and enforcement examples from "backward third world nations" (other people's words, not mine) a true and valid example of "forward progress"?

The USA- leading the world in the quest for liberty, by doing the same ass-backward things everyone else is doing.

ooo-rah.

I need an autographed photo of Moore! This guy! What a hero.

Mexico Joe said:

I need an autographed photo of Moore! This guy! What a hero.

I'm too paranoid give out my signature- I'm afraid you would give it to Jerry, and then he'd take it and start forging checks and draining my bottomless checking account...

:lol:

Kenny said:

"called it" what Rosie?

Called it a troll...a Mexican-American troll. Wait a minute...I'm assuming the pm messages you got were from Eduardo and not from Robert? Maybe I didn't call it.

PitiquitoRosy said:

Called it a troll...a Mexican-American troll. Wait a minute...I'm assuming the pm messages you got were from Eduardo and not from Robert? Maybe I didn't call it.

I don't know what I'd call him Rosie, but if he was just guessing when he put in his two cents about how things worked in Mexico he could have batted at least 500, but as it was he was wrong most of the time. Did you know you can cut (copy) and past Pm's? Yep you can, and I have a few on file I'm saving for Christmas presents.:-P

PitiquitoRosy said:

Called it a troll...a Mexican-American troll. Wait a minute...I'm assuming the pm messages you got were from Eduardo and not from Robert? Maybe I didn't call it.

Kenny only PM's me about fishing stuff.... 8-)

moore_rb said:

Kenny only PM's me about fishing stuff.... 8-)

You guys PM about fishing? Shoot...I feel kinda like I did the first time I saw a lawyer of mine having a friendly chat with the opposing lawyer! What a betrayal that is to the rest of us who are taking sides and placing bets!

HAHAHAHAHAH....

Well then, I hope you don't think even less of me when you hear I also PM Roberto from time to time...


:lol:

moore_rb said:

HAHAHAHAHAH....

Well then, I hope you don't think even less of me when you hear I also PM Roberto from time to time...


:lol:

Rosie probably doesn't, but I'd guess Roberto does.:rolleyes:

I usually see PM's from Bob (with links to articles) on days when the weather in Penasco is not ideal... so I know where this falls on his list of priorities (as it should be)
Heck- he went through the trouble to make a forum post about where my boat was parked, but didn't bother to swing into the restaurant to say hi :think:

moore_rb said:

I usually see PM's from Bob (with links to articles) on days when the weather in Penasco is not ideal... so I know where this falls on his list of priorities (as it should be)
Heck- he went through the trouble to make a forum post about where my boat was parked, but didn't bother to swing into the restaurant to say hi :think:

Well, the truth is that I was not sure whose boat it was. I speculated it might be yours or Stuarts but could have been anyone's. So given all that and that I had no idea WHO to look for if I did go in, I drove by. I had a thought when I got home to go and ask the Military to march into Capones and drag the guy who parket it out because he stole it from ME. Thought did not last long, too brutal. Anyway I decided to just PM the next day, you first then Stuart but you got back to me. BTW after you bitching that I revealed where you parked, why did you tell me it was YOU parked their under the protection of the Military?? And just read the words I wrote here and do not interpret, OK !!!

Roberto said:

BTW after you bitching that I revealed where you parked, why did you tell me it was YOU parked their under the protection of the Military??

I wasn't bitching... I was teasing. Just as I was teasing above.

How could I be legitimately griped about someone "revealing" anything about my boat? I've posted pictures of my boat all over the fishing forum. The name of my boat is plastered on the side of it in 10 inch tall letters. It is hardly inconspicuous.

The parking/military/machine gun thing was a non-issue. They didn't care that I parked my boat there - We asked them, and made sure of that before we went in for dinner; and I really didn't think you actually cared about it either...

I figured your post about it was just poking fun. Correct me if I'm wrong- I mean, If you sincerely BELIEVED all the crap you wrote about me getting special treatment by the Federales, then I am totally guilty of mis-interpreting your post (it sounded way too much like a joke to me)

Any "military protection" you perceived my boat to be getting was happenstance- there was nothing deliberate or organized about it.

Roberto said:

just read the words I wrote here and do not interpret, OK !!!

You've been getting a lot of mileage out of that phrase lately... I should have trademarked it. :cool:

Total joking, and I felt you were as well, no problema. Our posts get a bit 'edgy' from time to time but all in the quest to fight boredom, for me anyway. But I did pause for thought about some plot that you might have hatched to snare the protection of the Federals !! JA ja ja ja.:aagh::aagh::crybaby::bunny:

Actually my real reaction to seeing that boat parked there was to visualize it after a sustained burst from the machine gun and automatic fire from the street !! I think the Federals were glad for additional camo and buffer.!!!!

Roberto said:

Actually my real reaction to seeing that boat parked there was to visualize it after a sustained burst from the machine gun and automatic fire from the street !! I think the Federals were glad for additional camo and buffer.!!!!

HAHAHA that would have been a tragic mistake on their part - if the bullets had actually started flying, they would have very quickly learned that they were actually taking cover behind a 150 gallon plastic fuel tank, surrounded by a 3/8 inch thick layer of fiberglass...


{BOOM}

moore_rb said:

HAHAHA that would have been a tragic mistake on their part - if the bullets had actually started flying, they would have very quickly learned that they were actually taking cover behind a 150 gallon plastic fuel tank, surrounded by a 3/8 inch thick layer of fiberglass...


{BOOM}

Slim to none, and you know it Moore.

moore_rb said:

HAHAHAHAHAH....

Well then, I hope you don't think even less of me when you hear I also PM Roberto from time to time...


:lol:

I've just gone from feeling betrayed to feeling left out!

moore_rb said:

Any "military protection" you perceived my boat to be getting was happenstance- there was nothing deliberate or organized about it.

Aw, Robert...to a true conspiracy theorist, there's no such thing as happenstance, is there?

PitiquitoRosy said:

Aw, Robert...to a true conspiracy theorist, there's no such thing as happenstance, is there?

HAHAHAHAH I guess not-But, If I was ever to become THAT paranoid, I guess I really WOULD need Roberto's buddies with the white coats and the rubber truck to come and get me...

You guys all grill me pretty hard about this conspiracy theory stuff.... por que?

The only "popular" conspiracy theory I have lent any personal creedance to is the collapse of the WTC Building 7 on 9/11, but that is not even MY theory.... I'm only choosing to believe what several building demolition experts have all testified to (several under oath).

If any of you think you are going to change what I personally believe by ridiculing me, then you are an even greater fool than I am, yes?

Find any information, based in fact, that refutes the claim (and observation) that Building 7 was a controlled demolition, and bring it to my attention. You would be doing me a favor...

Otherwise, let's just leave the conspiracy theory thing off in the corner, and move on to the weather, shall we?

OK, the weather is nice here right now. Cool at night and warm in the day. A little windy today with some dust blowing but a lot nicer that the weather in Buffalo NY I bet.

But if Building 7 was a controlled demolition, then wouldn't that mean the whole was orchestrated? (not attacking, just asking :)

moore_rb said:

HAHAHAHAH I guess not-But, If I was ever to become THAT paranoid, I guess I really WOULD need Roberto's buddies with the white coats and the rubber truck to come and get me...

You guys all grill me pretty hard about this conspiracy theory stuff.... por que?

The only "popular" conspiracy theory I have lent any personal creedance to is the collapse of the WTC Building 7 on 9/11, but that is not even MY theory.... I'm only choosing to believe what several building demolition experts have all testified to (several under oath).

If any of you think you are going to change what I personally believe by ridiculing me, then you are an even greater fool than I am, yes?

Find any information, based in fact, that refutes the claim (and observation) that Building 7 was a controlled demolition, and bring it to my attention. You would be doing me a favor...

Otherwise, let's just leave the conspiracy theory thing off in the corner, and move on to the weather, shall we?

mis2810 said:

But if Building 7 was a controlled demolition, then wouldn't that mean the whole was orchestrated? (not attacking, just asking :)

Hey now, don't be hijacking the weather thread !!:-x:-x:notme::notme:

mis2810 said:

But if Building 7 was a controlled demolition, then wouldn't that mean the whole was orchestrated? (not attacking, just asking :)

I personally think THAT is the primary question that (I believe) most people don't want to face, and that's why they choose not to dig any deeper than what the news reports.... And I am cool with that.

But, if you want more to chew on, here are some more "nuggets" of fact (verifiable via several sources, and not disputed by any "conspiracy debunking" websites) for you to decide on your own whether it is personally worth looking at or not:

1) Larry Silverstein leased the Entire World Trade center complex from the Port Authority for 220 Million dollars just a matter of weeks before the attack. He immediately took out an insurance policy for 5x the Lease amount, and paid the extra premium to add the MAXIMUM amount of additional coverage allowable to cover acts of terrorism. He made 4.6 Billion dollars on a 220 Million outlay. A lucky bet?

2) Silverstein's own personal office was on the top floor of Building One, as were the offices of his closest co-workers (including his 2 grown children) - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM happened to be "running late for work that morning" and were all at their respective homes at 8:45 that morning.

3) According to Silverstein's own Secretary- he was scheduled to attend his usual breakfast with clients at 8:30 that morning on the observation deck of Building One. Neither he, nor any of his "late running" Senior Staff, bothered to show up at the breakfast, or to call it off, or to even inform the secretary of their whereabouts.

Now, all of these facts can be explained away as "random coincidence" as well.... As can the fact that the CIA offices in building 2, and the New York Mayor's emergency response bunker in building 7 were all "closed" that day (a Tuesday)... when they were all "open" the prior day (and were open on Tuesday the prior week)

And so too can the fact that American Airlines stock was trading in extremely volatile fashion, on much higher than normal volume, the day prior, be explained as coincidental.

But, what about the fact thatBBC television in Londonreported that WTC 7 had collapsed some 30 minutes before it actually did? No explanation has ever been forthcoming from the BBC about this, and they claim to have lost the original video of the reporter Jane Standley announcing the collapse of building 7 - but don't worry, it's all over Youtube.

Now, Roberto always has one rock-solid retort that he usually throws at me, which I can't discredit: Something this huge, if done deliberately, would fail to maintain its secrecy - some insider somewhere would have gone public with some damning evidence by now...

But what if the "insiders" who posess this knowledge and evidence are now complicit; or are filthy rich, as a result of their silence?

Consider Brent Blanchard of Protec, the building demolition "expertise" company, formed in early 2001, and who authored the most highly credited paper debunking the controlled demolition conspiracy theory.

Protec is no longer in the building demolition business. In fact, there is no record of Protec ever demolishing a single building, anywhere. Like a bunch of Automotive Engineers from Detroit, all getting together and forming a car company, but never designing or manufacturing a single car.

Now, Protec is simply a website offering "news and information" about other companies' building demolition activities; and Blanchard has been "retired" since 2005, as have the other "demolition experts" formerly employed by Protec.

Again, I freely admit I am TOTALLY SPECULATING about Blanchard and Protec, but man, that's some damn fine luck - Form a building demolition company in New Jersey in 2001, a company which never actually demolished a single building (or did they?), and then publish a popular paper about how THESE particular buildings in New York were NOT demolished, and then retire rich... all within a 4 year time span.... Man, where do I sign up for a great career like that?


Imagine that the wind were to blow across the playa, and the grains of sand it picked up along the way, all managed to fall back to the ground in the form of a perfect sand castle.... It's not impossible, it's just highly improbable.

So yes, - the truth surrounding 9/11 may be EXACTLY what most people believe it to be, but I am a scientist by nature - I am puzzled by anomalies and how they manage to distort the smooth and seamless operation of everyday reality; and the official story behind 9/11 leaves a great many anomalies (or "happenstance" events) unanswered.

Meanwhile, the events as they have been explained to us, have been challenged by contradictory evidence, and by outright refutation of the published stories, by people who were THERE, and reported hearing rapid-fire explosions, and felt the ground shake, immediately BEFORE each building came down. You have to choose to ignore, or to disbelieve, these people (who have nothing to gain by lying) in order to follow the narrative of the "official" story.

Consider the fact that Osama Bin Laden's first published report to Aljazeera was that "He had nothing to do with it"... Strange, and historically improbable, for a Terrorist not to WANT to take credit for such a massive and well executed attack that he was later determined to be the Architect of?

Up until 9/11, most large scale terrorist attacks were usually followed by NUMEROUS groups coming out and claiming responsibility for the act... But not this one?

A more logical story (using history as a guide) would have had Hezbollah, Al Queda, and "extreme sub-factions of the PLO" all coming forward and declaring that they did it... right? Instead- all these groups either stayed silent, or actually came out and openly said "Nope, it wasn't us..."

All the counter-intuituve anomalies regarding that day are fascinating to me... nothing more, nothing less.

If you have to call me crazy, then call me crazy for taking so much time to read (and think) about this crap, but don't call me crazy for daring to challenge the likliehood that the wind can indeed form sand castles.

There, I've opened myself up to the:

:sharks:


Come and get me.

Oh, and so I don't have to argue with any of you about anything other than refutation of the info and thinking points I present above, IF you choose to continue believing the official narrative, and if you choose not to entertain any of the possibilities I present, then simply reply back with:

Oswald killed Kennedy alone, Robert

and I will take that as a signal that no further discussion (or dissection of events and circumstances) is required.... :cool:

moore_rb said:

I personally think THAT is the primary question that (I believe) most people don't want to face, and that's why they choose not to dig any deeper than what the news reports.... And I am cool with that.

But, if you want more to chew on, here are some more "nuggets" of fact (verifiable via several sources, and not disputed by any "conspiracy debunking" websites) for you to decide on your own whether it is personally worth looking at or not:

1) Larry Silverstein leased the Entire World Trade center complex from the Port Authority for 220 Million dollars just a matter of weeks before the attack. He immediately took out an insurance policy for 5x the Lease amount, and paid the extra premium to add the MAXIMUM amount of additional coverage allowable to cover acts of terrorism. He made 4.6 Billion dollars on a 220 Million outlay. A lucky bet?

2) Silverstein's own personal office was on the top floor of Building One, as were the offices of his closest co-workers (including his 2 grown children) - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM happened to be "running late for work that morning" and were all at their respective homes at 8:45 that morning.

3) According to Silverstein's own Secretary- he was scheduled to attend his usual breakfast with clients at 8:30 that morning on the observation deck of Building One. Neither he, nor any of his "late running" Senior Staff, bothered to show up at the breakfast, or to call it off, or to even inform the secretary of their whereabouts.

Now, all of these facts can be explained away as "random coincidence" as well.... As can the fact that the CIA offices in building 2, and the New York Mayor's emergency response bunker in building 7 were all "closed" that day (a Tuesday)... when they were all "open" the prior day (and were open on Tuesday the prior week)

And so too can the fact that American Airlines stock was trading in extremely volatile fashion, on much higher than normal volume, the day prior, be explained as coincidental.

But, what about the fact thatBBC television in Londonreported that WTC 7 had collapsed some 30 minutes before it actually did? No explanation has ever been forthcoming from the BBC about this, and they claim to have lost the original video of the reporter Jane Standley announcing the collapse of building 7 - but don't worry, it's all over Youtube.

Now, Roberto always has one rock-solid retort that he usually throws at me, which I can't discredit: Something this huge, if done deliberately, would fail to maintain its secrecy - some insider somewhere would have gone public with some damning evidence by now...

But what if the "insiders" who posess this knowledge and evidence are now complicit; or are filthy rich, as a result of their silence?

Consider Brent Blanchard of Protec, the building demolition "expertise" company, formed in early 2001, and who authored the most highly credited paper debunking the controlled demolition conspiracy theory.

Protec is no longer in the building demolition business. In fact, there is no record of Protec ever demolishing a single building, anywhere. Like a bunch of Automotive Engineers from Detroit, all getting together and forming a car company, but never designing or manufacturing a single car.

Now, Protec is simply a website offering "news and information" about other companies' building demolition activities; and Blanchard has been "retired" since 2005, as have the other "demolition experts" formerly employed by Protec.

Again, I freely admit I am TOTALLY SPECULATING about Blanchard and Protec, but man, that's some damn fine luck - Form a building demolition company in New Jersey in 2001, a company which never actually demolished a single building (or did they?), and then publish a popular paper about how THESE particular buildings in New York were NOT demolished, and then retire rich... all within a 4 year time span.... Man, where do I sign up for a great career like that?


Imagine that the wind were to blow across the playa, and the grains of sand it picked up along the way, all managed to fall back to the ground in the form of a perfect sand castle.... It's not impossible, it's just highly improbable.

So yes, - the truth surrounding 9/11 may be EXACTLY what most people believe it to be, but I am a scientist by nature - I am puzzled by anomalies and how they manage to distort the smooth and seamless operation of everyday reality; and the official story behind 9/11 leaves a great many anomalies (or "happenstance" events) unanswered.

Meanwhile, the events as they have been explained to us, have been challenged by contradictory evidence, and by outright refutation of the published stories, by people who were THERE, and reported hearing rapid-fire explosions, and felt the ground shake, immediately BEFORE each building came down. You have to choose to ignore, or to disbelieve, these people (who have nothing to gain by lying) in order to follow the narrative of the "official" story.

Consider the fact that Osama Bin Laden's first published report to Aljazeera was that "He had nothing to do with it"... Strange, and historically improbable, for a Terrorist not to WANT to take credit for such a massive and well executed attack that he was later determined to be the Architect of?

Up until 9/11, most large scale terrorist attacks were usually followed by NUMEROUS groups coming out and claiming responsibility for the act... But not this one?

A more logical story (using history as a guide) would have had Hezbollah, Al Queda, and "extreme sub-factions of the PLO" all coming forward and declaring that they did it... right? Instead- all these groups either stayed silent, or actually came out and openly said "Nope, it wasn't us..."

All the counter-intuituve anomalies regarding that day are fascinating to me... nothing more, nothing less.

If you have to call me crazy, then call me crazy for taking so much time to read (and think) about this crap, but don't call me crazy for daring to challenge the likliehood that the wind can indeed form sand castles.

There, I've opened myself up to the:

:sharks:


Come and get me.

You must type very fast!!!!!!!

And have a lot of free time on his hands !!