His mother sounds like a rocket scientist also: "They ruled last night. Literally, we got like a call from the lawyer at 2:30 in the morning," said Olivia Hammar, the Miami-based mother of 27-year-old Jon Hammar.
He's not "chained to the bed"; as you can see the other ankle bracelet is laying up on the bed, not attatched to it.Jailed Marine chained to bed in Mexican prison | Watch the video - Yahoo! News
When I was over in N.M. I had the oppertunity to try out a Moore routine, before I knew what a Moore routine was..LOL
Anyway I decided to express myself by telling them what they could and couldn't do and that their detainment of me was not only unlawful in their state of N.M, it went directly again my constitutional rights. They decided to express themselves by stripping me naked and throwing me in a small cell with nothing in but me, nothing! After detaining me for about 8 hours they released me without filing charges. After all, there's no law against being stupid.:notme:
His mother sounds like a rocket scientist also: "They ruled last night. Literally, we got like a call from the lawyer at 2:30 in the morning," said Olivia Hammar, the Miami-based mother of 27-year-old Jon Hammar.
It's really nice to see that Mexico eventually did the RIGHT thing here and used discretion and didn't prosecute this man. Although it took 5 months Mexico proved me wrong that they were incapable of doing the right thing in this case.
Glad he is free,
but what a dim bulb.
A guy from Elgin that runs hunting trips in
Mexico I know has never had a problem...
Maybe, but this still has me scratching my head..."He had registered the shotgun with U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials on the U.S. side of the border, declaring he planned to take it with him into Mexico".
Maybe, but this still has me scratching my head..."He had registered the shotgun with U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials on the U.S. side of the border, declaring he planned to take it with him into Mexico".
I am very happy for him and his family (seriously) but I don't get why he would think he could just show up at the border with any gun. I have a hard time believing the US agents said "no problem that you have a gun" i havn't tried it yet but when they ask me if I have any weapons or money over $10,000 I wonder what they would say if I said YES. There has to be more to this story.
I am very happy for him and his family (seriously) but I don't get why he would think he could just show up at the border with any gun. I have a hard time believing the US agents said "no problem that you have a gun" i havn't tried it yet but when they ask me if I have any weapons or money over $10,000 I wonder what they would say if I said YES. There has to be more to this story.
Key words: ". . .why he would think . . ." His first problem was that he wasn't thinking. What really kills me about this story is that they (his family and others who are outraged by this) think it should make a difference because the rifle was a "family heirloom", and that he fought in Iraq. Why does that make him immune to the laws of another country? Why does he get special treatment?
Key words: ". . .why he would think . . ." His first problem was that he wasn't thinking. What really kills me about this story is that they (his family and others who are outraged by this) think it should make a difference because the rifle was a "family heirloom", and that he fought in Iraq. Why does that make him immune to the laws of another country? Why does he get special treatment?
He was thinking or he wouldn't have went to customs with it. Remember, it's not like they found it stashed under a seat. Someone had made him think that after he declared it on our side that it was OK to then declare it on the Mexican side, and that exactly what he did.. ..."He had registered the shotgun with U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials on the U.S. side of the border, declaring he planned to take it with him into Mexico".
While I agree what Jon Hammer did should have warranted the Mexican customs officials sending him back across the border rather than jailing him, what he did was dumb. Anyone planning to take a gun into another country needs to know the law well in advance of that country, probably by contacting the country's consulate or embassy. They should get the process in writing and follow it. Might even want to have an attorney's help so if there is a screw up you can sue the lawyer. Someone needs to investigate the conduct of our border agents who lead I'm to believe what he was doing was okay. Missing from the article was the fact that Fox News and Bill O'Reilly were planning a boycott of Mexico if he was not released before Christmas. There was no mention of any action by the White House on this because there was none. Thus O'Reilly deserves a lot of credit for this. Commander, Wayne L. Johnson, JAGC, Navy (Retired), Alexandria, VA, USA - CDR Wayne Johnson , Alexandria, United States, 21/12/2012 22:13
agree playa perro
While I agree what Jon Hammer did should have warranted the Mexican customs officials sending him back across the border rather than jailing him, what he did was dumb. Anyone planning to take a gun into another country needs to know the law well in advance of that country, probably by contacting the country's consulate or embassy. They should get the process in writing and follow it. Might even want to have an attorney's help so if there is a screw up you can sue the lawyer. Someone needs to investigate the conduct of our border agents who lead I'm to believe what he was doing was okay. Missing from the article was the fact that Fox News and Bill O'Reilly were planning a boycott of Mexico if he was not released before Christmas. There was no mention of any action by the White House on this because there was none. Thus O'Reilly deserves a lot of credit for this. Commander, Wayne L. Johnson, JAGC, Navy (Retired), Alexandria, VA, USA - CDR Wayne Johnson , Alexandria, United States, 21/12/2012 22:13
agree playa perro
Bill O'Reilly were planning a boycott of Mexico
Ha! I was planning on breaking him out with some of my expatriate friends; where's my credit?
Give me something dog, anything at all showing that that's true.
Now that's the dog I've grown to love, dork..LOL Thinking about doing something and actually doing something are two different things. Do you really think that because old Bill said “If Mexico doesn't’t release the corporal by Christmas, I’m going to call for a boycott of Mexico. Nobody goes.” is the reason he was released?:rofl:
Now that's the dog I've grown to love, dork..LOL Thinking about doing something and actually doing something are two different things. Do you really think that because old Bill said “If Mexico doesn't’t release the corporal by Christmas, I’m going to call for a boycott of Mexico. Nobody goes.” is the reason he was released?:rofl:
Personally I don't give a rats ass about you or what you think!
He was thinking or he wouldn't have went to customs with it. Remember, it's not like they found it stashed under a seat. Someone had made him think that after he declared it on our side that it was OK to then declare it on the Mexican side, and that exactly what he did.. ..."He had registered the shotgun with U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials on the U.S. side of the border, declaring he planned to take it with him into Mexico".
Declaring it at US Customs is meaningless. The other idiots are the US Customs officials who supposedly told him all he had to do was to declare it in Mexico. Anybody with half a brain would have investigated the procedure to bring a rifle into Mexico long before they got to the border.
Declaring it at US Customs is meaningless. The other idiots are the US Customs officials who supposedly told him all he had to do was to declare it in Mexico. Anybody with half a brain would have investigated the procedure to bring a rifle into Mexico long before they got to the border.
Of course it is, but why do it if someone hadn't told him it was what he was supposed to do? My point is that this guy who had apparently been going through therapy for PTSD followed some bad advice from people he trusted, and apparently things were going along just as he was told they would until he showed them the shotgun on the Mexican side.
There's no question in my mind that something is missing in this story
I'd think this kind of pressure was stronger than anything said by some game show host:mrgreen:, and a good thing to find out and acknowledge... Why Mexico continualy shoots itself in the foot over things like this is troubling, but knowing that this kind of reaction came from within Mexico is a positive sign.
.
I still think someone needs to look into the allegation that US agents told him "no problem just declare it on the otherside" Has anyone ever had that happen at Lukeville? Has anyone ever forgot they were carrying when they hit the border? If so, what did you do?
I agree that the public story is full of holes. I read on another Mexico forum that the gun was found concealed in an RV and not declared.
Questions:
Is there any evidence that he revealed and discussed the gun to the ICE folk? What do the officials at the border say?
Does in fact a form as described even exist and if so is it available at that crossing?
Personally I have the idea, completely unfounded of course, that this poor soul who was sent off by the US to kill people was first a victim of the citizens of the US by being put into such circumstances. I suspect he was aggressive with the Mexican officials which they reacted to moreso than the presence of an old gun. I think everyone that goes to war suffers PTSD which exacerbates the premorbid personality. By definition a Marine is trained to respond with aggression. People who like aggression like the marines. Simply put I think he got in their face when they found the gun and he tried to bluster his way out aggressively. If I have learned anything about Mexican officials I have learned that if you are calm and reasonable they will be reasonable with you. If you take the role of an arrogant, big mouth, know it all US citizen, they will treat you differently. They do not like to be insulted or humiliated but treated with respect. Same in the US, but I think Mexican line enforcement people have a lot more flexibility than US folk so a calm and reasonable approach can pay off big in a bad situation.
Bill O is an egotistical wind bag. It's absolutely predictable that he would believe he could create a boycott with his words and take credit for the release. If the presidential election had turned out differently he would be taking credit for that along with a couple of other windbags in the media. I'm surprised they have not been screaming this is all the socialist president's fault. I am sure there was alot of communication at various levels of government in the US and Mexico than in the end faciltated his release.
I bet that's the form referred to. But you would think there would be some discussion about taking a gun into Mexico. I have wondered what the people on the US side inquiring about money and guns would do if you said 'Yes I have a handgun". 'After all isn't it legal to carry in Arizona? Seems like you could legally have a truck load of legal guns and there is nothing the US enforcement could do but maybe notify the Mexican side if you cross?
One would think that would be a matter for Mexico. I actually have a friend who keeps almost that much ammo for some strange reason. So apparently it is illegal to posses certain guns under certain circumstances. Wonder of the driver's nationality had anything to do with it. The NRA should be shitting their shorts over this. Imagine, confiscating guns from people!
Declaring a firearm with customs before you leave the country is for when you return to the U.S. so you can show that you did not purchase the gun abroad. I agree with many of you that there alot of holes in the story. Bill O'Reilly did have a lot to do with putting pressure on the State Dept to get this issue resolved. That's according to the Marines family, his attorney, Both Florida Senators, and the congressional representative. Roberto should stay off MSNBC and get some facts.
Declaring a firearm with customs before you leave the country is for when you return to the U.S. so you can show that you did not purchase the gun abroad. I agree with many of you that there alot of holes in the story. Bill O'Reilly did have a lot to do with putting pressure on the State Dept to get this issue resolved. That's according to the Marines family, his attorney, Both Florida Senators, and the congressional representative. Roberto should stay off MSNBC and get some facts.
So I guess if they lied about how they declared/registered the gun so he could take it into Mexico, they could certainly make a mountain out of a mole hill about how important a statement that Billy boy made was in getting this man out. Anyone with a touch of common sense can see how, and like they always do, the Reds have turned this into a political game of oneupmanship... It's not only a gross exaggeration, it's appalling that so called "educated people" fall for it.
I'm not sure if the family lied, its just one of the things that doesn't make sense. When I went hunting in Namibia, Africa and also in South Africa, I had to first declare my rifle with customs before leaving, so I could take my rifle back into the United States. Customs does not generally give advice on other countries regulations. This also may be a case where both political parties did the right thing. One of the frontmen in the situation was the democratic senator from Florida. The republican congresswoman also helped and I'm sure the Obama state dept. also had a hand in getting the Marine released. Although some of the story doesn't add up, they did the right thing in getting him out.
I'm not sure if the family lied, its just one of the things that doesn't make sense. When I went hunting in Namibia, Africa and also in South Africa, I had to first declare my rifle with customs before leaving, so I could take my rifle back into the United States. Customs does not generally give advice on other countries regulations. This also may be a case where both political parties did the right thing. One of the frontmen in the situation was the democratic senator from Florida. The republican congresswoman also helped and I'm sure the Obama state dept. also had a hand in getting the Marine released. Although some of the story doesn't add up, they did the right thing in getting him out.
Again and from one of my previous post's on this thread.. I'm inclined to think that this and other internal pressure was a big factor.
BROWNSVILLE — A group representing more than 14,000 businessmen in northern Mexico is pleading for the release of Marine Corps veteran Jon Hammar, warning his “unfair” imprisonment for carrying an antique shotgun on his way to a surfing vacation will further devastate an already struggling tourism market.
I know of two people-man and woman-who crossed at Lukeville about 10 years ago totally ignorant of the gun laws in Mexico. It was their first trip down. They had a pistol in their trunk and thought all they had to do was voluntarily declare it. They even thought it was supposed to be left with Mexican customs and reclaimed when they went back to the US. They were both arrested and spent six months in the prison in Nogales. It took a lot of effort by a lot of people to get them released. They were eventually "released" on bond and were to come back to Mexico for a trial at some future point. The returned to the US which was what everyone-including Mexican officials-knew would happen. Moral of the story is find out from the country you are visiting what the laws are before crossing the border.
Ja ja ja, very funny. I do not watch the bobbling heads of the media. What you see is not news. It is highly filtered and sometimes distorted stuff designed to garner eyes and ears and therefore advertising dollars. More nefarious is the Murdock empire that the controlling interests use for political influence. That story continues to be told in England through government investigation. You can read the actual reports if you look and not rely on someone elses interpretation for what is going on. Many members of the government in England have reported being unduely influenced by attacks and threats from this news empire. Arrests have been made, some have been incarcerated and more trials will start soon. This empire owns FOX as well and they have made no efforts to concel the facts that they try to influence the political process.
I have not watched TV, except for when it's on at a bar I'm in, for well over 15 years. I was in the business for over 15 years and it stinks. I do read a lot, mostly from the web now, and read widely. Lots of opionion and information on the web on news and government sites from the US, England, Russia, India. Each has it's own slant of course but if you read enought the essential story seems clear. The 30 second news bites cannot and do not tell the story. It's a false illusion.
I'm sure he'll be complaining about how awful Mexico is, while at the same time not taking responsibility for his own stupidity.
Well someone is just going to have to let me know how it went, because I accidentally get more of Billy boy than I care to on Jon Stewart's show. No, I take that back, I like what I see of Billy boy on Jon Stewarts show.:grin:
down here the no news watching crowd and the Stephanie Miller/Link tv crowd are still coming down but the Fox News crowd feels a lot of peer pressure to stay in the USA.A prosecutor son-in-law won't let his dad take the grand kids down anymore....sad
I got in an argument yesterday at Christmas dinner with my brother in law over this same vet. Don't worry, we argue a lot. He said he would never set foot in Mexico and he wouldn't let my sister or his son go either. That ticked me off because I wouldn't bring my mother or boyfriend to Rocky Point if I thought it was dangerous. He was essentially calling me an idiot. He does that a lot. The media doesn't go, they don't know. I go and I know. My poor nephew will be stuck freezing on a cold beach in San Diego. Good thing my brother in law is a chief engineer at Honeywell, he will need all that money in California.... Sorry, I'm ticked off.....
we have been going to rocky point for four years now we take our families kids too five with no problems what so ever one of our neighbors finally believed us and now goes with us two kid included
. . . He was essentially calling me an idiot. He does that a lot. The media doesn't go, they don't know. I go and I know. .....
Yep. The media spews all sorts of things that wide-eyed believers chew and swallow with no question, and then view dissidents as not so smart. Ironic it is. In the case of the Rocky Point disinformation, would-be tourists have been hoodwinked into staying home for years. But if I'm not mistaken, I seem to be noticing that word must be getting out. As more people have been slowly coming out of their hidey holes, heading south, living to tell about their wonderful time (!), and returning, I think the trend is growing.