Does anyone have more info on the killing last Monday near Vina del Mar hotel?
I hear the suspects walked into the San Jose Clinic and executed the victim as he was being treated for the gunshot wounds he received at the hotel.
Supposedly four suspects came in the clinic with auto-rifles and took the doctors and police officers hostage while they shot the victim as he was lying on a gurney????
This will set back any return of tourism for a while. I have read what folks have do say on this blog and I am for the most part inclined to agree. I also listen to what my friends and others have to say, and that can't be disregarded either. It is a mess of a perfect storm that will last a while. It is a same. "And that' all I have to say about that".
Check out the entire story on www.rockypointnewsonline.com
Not sure from reading your blog if you mean that you will stay away due to this killing or what you meant. Would you explain?
Speaking of RPNO, Rosie, are you ever going to put the old archive link back online? Or at least let it jump to the old site's format for those old issues? When I do use the new "archive search," it only goes back to July 23rd, the first issue with the site's new look/template. Would hate to lose all that old info!
Wow. Somebody really had it out for this guy. He must of known something or done somebody very wrong for them to take the clinic hostage and finish the job. Very, very brazen and frightful implications for Penasco. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water... <cue Jaws music>
Wow. Somebody really had it out for this guy. He must of known something or done somebody very wrong for them to take the clinic hostage and finish the job. Very, very brazen and frightful implications for Penasco. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water... <cue Jaws music>
Speaking of RPNO, Rosie, are you ever going to put the old archive link back online? Or at least let it jump to the old site's format for those old issues? When I do use the new "archive search," it only goes back to July 23rd, the first issue with the site's new look/template. Would hate to lose all that old info!
The archives as we knew them are history. I have an idea for getting that information back to where we can see it, but I'll have to talk to Mel.
As for the shooting at San Jose Clinic and how it will impact Rocky Point tourism. Let me point out that if the original poster had read RPNO he would know that the deceased was also armed and that this happened at 3:20am. And when the shooters went to the clinic, they hurt absolutely no one besides their intended target. Not even the police officers were threatened or attacked. Everyone was made to get on the floor, they finished their task and moved on.
Not a good thing, but worth mentioning that those who aren't part of that scene are in no danger. More innocent bystanders are hit by stray bullets in American cities than here in Penasco. In fact, it hasn't happened that I know of in the years I've lived here. Not once.
When the subject of danger or violence comes up in our conversations, we need to stop being apologists. Hold your head high and be glad for the opportunity to enlighten others. We are safer in Penasco than in the States, and we need to quit being afraid of the truth.
I think my days in Mexico are coming to an end. I saw nothing on the local Phoenix news about this and if this wasn't reported than no telling what else goes unreported. I know that many say as compared to the valley rocky point has only a fraction of the crime but per-capita I'd say the valley has less and any part of the valley that has this much crime I'll avoid too! Can you imagine if anything of this magnitude had happened in the valley?
According to Diario Del Deserto 2 more guys died in seperate shootings. A guy called "El Bebo in town and another guy on the road from Sonoyta. Rumor has it they are fighting over the Mardi Gras bead market.
You know AZ Miguel, I think it is best you stay in Phoenix, in fact, maybe just stay in your house, no that won't work because I am sure you have heard of the home invasions that happen in the Valley, I not sure where you can go to be entirely safe, but if you read the entire story in RPNO and still think you will be in danger coming to Rocky Point, then I can only assume you are a member of a drug cartel, thus I understand your fear.:twisted: (The devil made me do it.)
Why blast AZ Miguel? I think he makes a good point. I also avoid places where known violence and crimes occur. You can keep yelling “we are safe here” but if this little tourist town keeps having these types of things occurring………why would anyone bring their family there? I can’t think of another US “tourist town” (the same size in population) that keeps having these types of “incidents”.
I am not about to get into a battle with those who feel that they KNOW Rocky Point is more dangerous than any little tourist town they can think of, but just to enlighten you a little:
Mackinaw Island (Population 491) Burgluary 2, Theft 340, Rape 2, Assault 2
Sanibel Island (Population 5645) Murder 1, Rapes 16, Assaults 1, Burglaries 36, Thefts 60, Car thefts 3
Since the population of Rocky Point is approximately 50,000, you do the math.
But those of us who feel differently than you, are kinda tired of blanket statements without any basis!
The archives as we knew them are history. I have an idea for getting that information back to where we can see it, but I'll have to talk to Mel.
As for the shooting at San Jose Clinic and how it will impact Rocky Point tourism. Let me point out that if the original poster had read RPNO he would know that the deceased was also armed and that this happened at 3:20am. And when the shooters went to the clinic, they hurt absolutely no one besides their intended target. Not even the police officers were threatened or attacked. Everyone was made to get on the floor, they finished their task and moved on.
Not a good thing, but worth mentioning that those who aren't part of that scene are in no danger. More innocent bystanders are hit by stray bullets in American cities than here in Penasco. In fact, it hasn't happened that I know of in the years I've lived here. Not once.
When the subject of danger or violence comes up in our conversations, we need to stop being apologists. Hold your head high and be glad for the opportunity to enlighten others. We are safer in Penasco than in the States, and we need to quit being afraid of the truth.
I feel better knowing the recent killings in Rocky Point are a result of trained assassins who mean no harm to the local folks or tourists. Your foolish to beleive if your not part of that scene your in no danger, give it time and it will happen. Any way I plan to to hang my head low walking from my coup to the beach this weekend, never know what may come flying my way.
Empty towers (pillars of salt?) plague (swine flu) war (narcos) collapse of society (housing bubble) earthquakes,high priced beer,lack of tolet paper in public bathrooms.....all we lack are swarms of Locusts,fire and brimstone..
This all could be the Black Widows fault (when will she give me my wallet back anyways?)
In the bible the city of Sodom was destroyed because the local gay community (just about everyone) wanted to have sex with 2 angels visiting Lot......
"Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Puerto Penasco, from the Lord out of the heavens" Genesis 19:24. Turning Rokcy Point into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly" II Peter 2:6.
What the heck kind of stuff :sunny:are you into Roberto, or are you having a Woodstock flashback,:shock: again?
I just noticed that a Green light appears next to my and others name as well. I thought is was one of Jerry's symbols. When you reach the appropriate levels of awareness from meditation you will see a BLUE light that comes from the navel. I though you knew all about this Kenny!
Is that car in the picture a gray 04 trailblazer? I couldn't say, but it doesn't look grey to me. I only know what the last, the paragraph says "According to witnesses the gunmen left in a grey 2004 Chevy Trailblazer with Arizona licenseplates." That makes me think someone saw, and gave a description of the getaway vehicle.
"Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Puerto Penasco, from the Lord out of the heavens" Genesis 19:24. Turning Rokcy Point into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly" II Peter 2:6.
How about just Sandy Beach!
I just noticed that a Green light appears next to my and others name as well. I thought is was one of Jerry's symbols. When you reach the appropriate levels of awareness from meditation you will see a BLUE light that comes from the navel. I though you knew all about this Kenny!
Well I guess you thought wrong.. Wait a minute, let me check...Nope, it's red.
I ran into 10 fishermen from Puerto Penasco down by Fort Bowie last month.They were on the final leg of a "hiking trip" It looked like they had dropped their packs off and were waiting to be picked up by a air conditioned Border patrol van for the ride back home.
One of the guys sells shrimp in town at his real job. How can the mexican goverment compete with the narcos when a guy can make 2 months pay in a day and a half hike?
The archives as we knew them are history. I have an idea for getting that information back to where we can see it, but I'll have to talk to Mel.
As for the shooting at San Jose Clinic and how it will impact Rocky Point tourism. Let me point out that if the original poster had read RPNO he would know that the deceased was also armed and that this happened at 3:20am. And when the shooters went to the clinic, they hurt absolutely no one besides their intended target. Not even the police officers were threatened or attacked. Everyone was made to get on the floor, they finished their task and moved on.
Not a good thing, but worth mentioning that those who aren't part of that scene are in no danger. More innocent bystanders are hit by stray bullets in American cities than here in Penasco. In fact, it hasn't happened that I know of in the years I've lived here. Not once.
When the subject of danger or violence comes up in our conversations, we need to stop being apologists. Hold your head high and be glad for the opportunity to enlighten others. We are safer in Penasco than in the States, and we need to quit being afraid of the truth.
Rosy....I have never been an apologist....I've always told anyone who would listen that I find RP safer then many areas of Phoenix. I was raised in New York City, and was never robbed, mugged or anything else....you go looking for trouble and you will find it!!! HOWEVER.....if the "hits" continue, eventually someone will get caught in the crossfire! I don't know what the conditions were at the clinic...if the police were surprised/overwhelmed and found it more intelligent not to fight back.....or just decided to look the other way, but at first glance, it does not give me a "warm and fuzzy" as to the capabilities of the local police, or where their "interests" lie.....
Why blast AZ Miguel? I think he makes a good point. I also avoid places where known violence and crimes occur. You can keep yelling “we are safe here” but if this little tourist town keeps having these types of things occurring………why would anyone bring their family there? I can’t think of another US “tourist town” (the same size in population) that keeps having these types of “incidents”.
THANK YOU!!! My point exactly! I started going to Rocky Point when I first moved to AZ in 1975 and I've seen a lot of change here and there! I can still legally carry a pistol here but only the law and outlaws have them SOB. The $hit is getting deep and I'm not going to put my family at a higher risk when I can avoid it. To rationalize that no one got shot other then the main person is not taking into account that EVERYONE was ordered to the floor to include the cops! You think they said please? hell no, it was also at gun point with the threat of losing their lives! Sure, stifle the news that will affect the tourism industry in a negative way but if this story is true then you can bet Rocky point is going to slow down even more. Lots of dirty money went into building it up and with it came some real nasty player's and all the American influence will not help keep the Mexican corruption out.
Not even the police officers were threatened or attacked. Everyone was made to get on the floor, they finished their task and moved on.
Not a good thing, but worth mentioning that those who aren't part of that scene are in no danger.
And the Police Officers could do nothing about someone being murdered because the were fearful for their own live's! What part of this do you not understand that the polices WERE THREATENED! as was everyone else! Would you be ok with any of your family in that situation?
I can't wait to get back down...the traffic here is more dangerous than what I've seen/heard in Penasco! Atleast it's not LA with drive by shootings (yet). I hope the people come back and the drug cartels keep their end of life a little more hidden. The same thing happens here all the time, anyway......PARTY ON! I won't talk sh!t about anyone else...I do believe that Parrothead's 'bash' on Miguel was just a poke, though. You can stay home with your head in the sand (dust, dirt, whatever)...IT'S EVERYWHERE and it ain't goin' away!
I have lived in Penasco full time for about 2 years and feel very safe. You all can say what you want but the worst thing that I deal with here is the neighbors occasional loud music. Bad things happen everywhere. Mostly to bad people. I lived in Tucson for over 20 years (in a decent neighborhood) and can't count the times the helicopter was in my neighborhood with the spotlight on. If you are scared, please don't come. We don't need you. But, please don't buy into the hysteria. I don't need to defend this place. If the Americans don't come to enjoy it the Mexicans will. It is actually quite busy now with Mexican Nationals on vacation. It is a beautiful place with a very bright future. Now, go ahead and spread some more crap if you have to.
No need to throw anymore mud here guys and gals! I defend some of my friends' descisions not to bring thier young children down right now, but don't understand the 'human condition' attached to this problem. If you aren't comfortable with going to Penasco, why are you here? We like it here on the board and in RP, if you don't...please, keep it to yourself. The people who are looking for a good place to go don't need it either! The US government is doing ENOUGH to discredit Mexico as it is!!!!
We aren't buying so don't try to sell here, sorry.
AZ Miguel and rockyptjoe are dead on. It is difficult to put any kind of a good spin on this situation. I regret that my days of enjoyment on RP may also be limited. It is not much fun coming down to to a gost town by oneself. Again, people read and believe whay they read. Being gunned down in a medical center is not the norm in the U.S. If someone is shot in a bar it ends there. RP is realativity a small community. If this type of deadly crimminal activity happened in a small community in a short time in the U.S. it would get national exposure. To dismiss this as trivial is whistling by the graveyard. Some people cannot handle the truth. "And that is all I have to say about that".
I'm not ready to write off Rocky Point.....YET....but if the shootings continue or increase....I will drop it like I would any other place that had become too dangerous to visit and vacation at.....in Mexico or the US! When I start worrying too much about where I can or can't go in town without getting caught in a gun battle.....that is when I leave.
I've been coming to Penasco for a bunch of years....well before any of the condos on Sandy Beach were built. Used to camp at Playa Bonita...started with tents....left everything out....unlocked when I played in the water with my kids. Left all sorts of stuff out at night, never worrying about it growing legs and walking away. Now I double lock the trailer, don't leave anything out that that costs more then a few dollars and I don't want to lose..... I've had my trailer broken into...with several items stolen. I can handle that....but I will not "handle" or make excuses for gun battles in the street or in areas of town that I may frequent. People talk about drive-bys in some of the US cities....and murders....but we haven't had the type of violence that the drug gangs have levied in Mexico anywhere in the US.....where politicians, police chiefs, and newsmen are assasinated. Great if the gangs were just knocking each other off....but they are killing those who oppose or expose them.
A couple of years ago I was starting to think that my days coming down to Penasco were numbered with all the development, and the rv parks quickly disappearing. Then the economic "downturn" (or was it a collapse) slowed that. I was looking forward to several more years. With more violence, those few extra years will be gone, as will I! You can accuse me of putting my head in the sand about violence or safety in the US....but those who discount any increase in violence in Penasco are also sticking their head in the sand!
For now I will continue to watch the news of happenings in Penasco, and base whether I continue coming down on MY judgement if I or my family are in too much danger...not based on EITHER the "rah rah" crowd, or the "sky is falling" crowd!
Don't get me wrong, I know it's much safer in Penasco than in downtown Tucson, parts of Phx, etc. And when I go to Penasco, I’ll leave the top down, doors unlocked, eat with the locals at 3am, trust strangers to watch my stuff on the beach…Eventually I want to live down there full-time, starting with three month stretches in the very near future. It's just that statement about the cops that puts things into perspective: "What were they to do, they feared for their lives!"
Yes, I agree, in that situation it was true. But how often would you have said that about a police force in the US? (Outside of a scenario w/ a tiny town in the states with one sheriff, a few deputies, Mayberry-style.)
It just puts things into perspective. I don't go to clubs/areas in Tucson or Phx where’s there’s known shootings in the parking lot--and yes, it could happen anywhere, yeah, I hear ya'. It's just very rattling to hear these hits going down in Penasco mere inches away from where you parked last weekend, or actually had a beer or used that ATM machine, etc. And if I WAS in a rough situation in the states, the last thing that'd cross my mind would be that the police force was just as helpless as I was.
Anyway, I know this is bigger than a Penasco, or even just a Sonora problem, just wish the city could get the funds to beef up the quality of the force down there. (And pay ‘em enough so they’re not threatening jail time—and taking a bribe instead—for being parked facing the wrong way on a side street. Yes, that’s right, jail for a non-moving violation!)
AND, it’d be nice if those narcos would go back to treating Penasco as a Hit-Free Zone, and not abuse it as somewhere to hide out, if that’s what’s going on. Not in my neighborhood!
Why blast AZ Miguel? I think he makes a good point. I also avoid places where known violence and crimes occur. You can keep yelling “we are safe here” but if this little tourist town keeps having these types of things occurring………why would anyone bring their family there? I can’t think of another US “tourist town” (the same size in population) that keeps having these types of “incidents”.
I too, avoid places where known violence and crimes occur. That's why when I'm in the States, I no longer feel safe in church, schools, post offices, day care centers, gymnasiums, malls, courtrooms, or senior citizen centers. All of the above are places where a spate of shootings have occured with increasing frequency in recent years.
So long as I don't hang out in back alleys at 3am, I know I'm safer in Mexico.
Although I don't agree with you fear-mongers, I do understand. Being afraid of the big, bad men in a foreign country is a lot easier than looking at the risk you take each day when you send your kids off to school or drop them off at daycare in the U.S.
Wow...as I wrote this I just heard about the latest shooting at a gym in the States. One building with a homicide rate to match that of this city of almost 50,000...geez
Sanibel Island (Population 5645) Murder 1, Rapes 16, Assaults 1, Burglaries 36, Thefts 60, Car thefts 3
Since the population of Rocky Point is approximately 50,000, you do the math.
But those of us who feel differently than you, are kinda tired of blanket statements without any basis!
Thank you for the stats. There are those here who will choose to ignore the logic, but I'm with you...on this one PH. April 2008 there were two drive-by shootings in one week in Scottsdale! One on the 4th and another on the 8th. In Arkansas they just voted to allow parishoners to carry guns to church to defend the congregations from shooters.
I feel better knowing the recent killings in Rocky Point are a result of trained assassins who mean no harm to the local folks or tourists. Your foolish to beleive if your not part of that scene your in no danger, give it time and it will happen. Any way I plan to to hang my head low walking from my coup to the beach this weekend, never know what may come flying my way.
I never think that I'm 100% safe from danger in any situation, in any country. But I did say that I'm safer here in Rocky Point than in Phoenix and the statistics back me up. I'm glad you're still going to the beach.
Look, it was obviously a brazen and shocking crime that occurred here last week. But there is a great disparity in how Americans process crime in the States and crime in Mexico. In the States you shrug off ghetto crime because it's in "that part of town" and doesn't affect you. If it happens in Mexico, regardless where in Mexico...it is frightening and you make no distinctions for where it occurred, what time of night, and whether there was other illicit activity going on.
In Mexico, you have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing. In the States, it can happen even in church and with no rhyme or reason. To me, that is much more frightening.
Is that car in the picture a gray 04 trailblazer? I couldn't say, but it doesn't look grey to me. I only know what the last, the paragraph says "According to witnesses the gunmen left in a grey 2004 Chevy Trailblazer with Arizona licenseplates." That makes me think someone saw, and gave a description of the getaway vehicle.
Kenny
Hi Kenny, have I told you that I'm impressed by your attention to detail?
Rosy....I have never been an apologist....I've always told anyone who would listen that I find RP safer then many areas of Phoenix. I was raised in New York City, and was never robbed, mugged or anything else....you go looking for trouble and you will find it!!! HOWEVER.....if the "hits" continue, eventually someone will get caught in the crossfire! I don't know what the conditions were at the clinic...if the police were surprised/overwhelmed and found it more intelligent not to fight back.....or just decided to look the other way, but at first glance, it does not give me a "warm and fuzzy" as to the capabilities of the local police, or where their "interests" lie.....
No one should assume that we don't all agree that something has to be done to keep improving public safety in RP. I think it's a given that we need to address that here on the community level. But we can't all start running for the hills (or we shouldn't, anyway) because a couple of hoodlums had a shootout. The new police chief has quit and there is a new guy at the helm. I suspect that's temporary. Let's see how this gets addressed by the new mayor.
"If you are scared, please don't come. We don't need you. But, please don't buy into the hysteria".
No hysteria...just facts! and yes I wont bring my family there for vacation!
So why are you on a Rocky Point forum instead of a Lake Havasu forum? Good luck to you...and please watch out. It would be ironic if something happened to you in your own backyard, now wouldn't it?
AZ Miguel and rockyptjoe are dead on. It is difficult to put any kind of a good spin on this situation. I regret that my days of enjoyment on RP may also be limited. It is not much fun coming down to to a gost town by oneself. Again, people read and believe whay they read. Being gunned down in a medical center is not the norm in the U.S. If someone is shot in a bar it ends there. RP is realativity a small community. If this type of deadly crimminal activity happened in a small community in a short time in the U.S. it would get national exposure. To dismiss this as trivial is whistling by the graveyard. Some people cannot handle the truth. "And that is all I have to say about that".
There is no "good spin" on a murder. And perhaps your time would be better spent learning to spell anyway. If this is a "gost town" it is more due to people bad-mouthing a good place full of good people, than it is because of actual crime statistics. Being gunned down in a medical center isn't the norm anywhere. And your comment about it ending in the bar is too funny for words...
This isn't trivial, but you have bigger problems in the States, not the least of which is the rampant drug use that is creating such a huge demand as to keep the cartels in business. If you think the cartels are getting into the U.S. without any help from some heavy-hitters in the States, think again.
Mexico will get a handle on this because they have to. Maybe not eradicate, but certainly control.
People talk about drive-bys in some of the US cities....and murders....but we haven't had the type of violence that the drug gangs have levied in Mexico anywhere in the US.....where politicians, police chiefs, and newsmen are assasinated. Great if the gangs were just knocking each other off....but they are killing those who oppose or expose them.
....but those who discount any increase in violence in Penasco are also sticking their head in the sand!
For now I will continue to watch the news of happenings in Penasco, and base whether I continue coming down on MY judgement if I or my family are in too much danger...not based on EITHER the "rah rah" crowd, or the "sky is falling" crowd!
1. Yes, you've had that type of violence in the States. The difference is that you haven't had it in your part of the States. And we haven't had it in Rocky Point. Never, not once has a politician, police chief, or newsman been assasinated in Rocky Point. You make your arguments well, Joe. Can't you do it without lumping all of Mexico into one pot?
2. I for one acknowledge an increase in crime and the need to address solutions with city officials on a local level. That doesn't mean I think tourists are unsafe here, but I want to be a part of making this city a better place.
3. You are absolutely correct to take sole responsibility for the safety of your family.
4. I hope we all do the right thing and that you keep enjoying RP for a long time.
The people I run into that decide not to come because of security concerns seem to get much of their information from talk radio and faux news. All and all the dumbass passport requirement seems to be a bigger problem on the rental side.
The real estate "Professionals" that pocketed big checks from selling over priced property with bad titles let everyone down.
Rosy....I don't succumb to the "hysteria" that some have....I don't hang out in certain areas of town, either in Phoenix or Penasco....as someone else said...wrong place at the wrong time! But the 2 shootings in Penasco have occurred where I do go....Calle 13/Benito Juarez, Vina del Mar parking lot/clinic. I've been to all of those locations, and not just once. If I had been staying at the Vina del Mar and was just coming in from some drinking....since the bars close at 3am, I might have run into the shooting.
I just don't want to see the "pooh pooh" attitude..."it's only a couple of shootings....nothing to worry about".
It is only a couple of shootings, but it's the type of shootings that worry me....it's an indication that if there was a "hands off" attitude by the drug gangs for Penasco, that has stopped...and we will see an escalation.
Yeah, we have shootings in the US....multiple persons shot and killed (fitness center or university)...but that is usually the work of someone that has gone over the deep end....isolated incidents in the various locations It is not the drug warfare type of shootings that have occurred in Penasco (or down by Caborca).
And criticizing someone for worrying about their family's safety...and asking them why they are on this site (as a couple of posters have).... is completely out of line. I'm on this site to try to get info on what IS happening in Penasco....not the 'hysteria" reported in the news (tv or nespapers in AZ)....and to share any knowledge I've accumulated in 25 years of visiting!
Maybe there is a brite side to these shootings. In any war there is going to be fighting and it looks like the bad guys are doing the job for the police. Is one less drug dealer such a bad thing ?
Maybe there is a brite side to these shootings. In any war there is going to be fighting and it looks like the bad guys are doing the job for the police. Is one less drug dealer such a bad thing ?
Derek, I commented in one of my earlier posts....if they restrict the killings to just themselves...I have no problem with that. However, when you have that many bullets flying in public places frequented by tourists (and locals), eventually bystanders will be hit. It is inevitable!
Can you guys tell I was up late last night? Hahaha a gazillion posts by PitiquitoRosy! I hadn't had time all day to connect and this was a conversation I just had to get in on. Thanks, Pirate!
Ghost town. Now does that make you feel better Rosie? The spelling was not lost in translation. What seems to be lost is the reality of the situation. I am always amazed with people that think a misselled word lessens the meaning of the point. Somehow the person pointing out the correction feels a false superiority over the point that is attemted to be made. I would make the observation that by your frantic postings your buesniess interest in RP are in trouble. For that I am truely sorry. I do no wish either harm or illwill on anyone. To make disrespectful comments to people with legitimate concens is very condesending. I hope that I have not misselled anyting. I would hate to be scolded again when I was just expressing any opion. If so, I am sorry that I can not live up to your spelling standards. 1. ghost 2. ghost 3. ghost 4. ghost 5. ghost 6. ghost 7. ghost 8. ghost 9. ghost 10. ghost. Now can we be friends?
I never think that I'm 100% safe from danger in any situation, in any country.
Exactly.
It hasn't happened yet, but as the violence grows, it's only a matter of time until an innocent gets taken out. If it happens to an American tourist (god forbid, a child), the US news media is going to be all over it like stink on shit. That event would pretty much nail the coffin shut on Penasco tourism.
That's truly my only fear - being in the wrong place at the wrong time and catchin' a bullet in my bubblegoose. Like sitting at a taco stand, stuffing some delicious carne tacos in my face, not knowing the table of locals next to me pissed off some drug lord and it suddenly becomes time for them to "pay the bill." It can happen anywhere, I suppose. It doesn't scare me and doesn't stop me from enjoying the tacos, but it does leave a sort of nagging mistrust of going out and about in town.
As long as the narcos only shoot people at 3:00 in the morning, I suppose I can live with that. I'm always in bed then and too busy snoring to even hear a gunshot. ;-)
:boat: I'm stayin in the water... it's safer... hell... I can even wear Yum Yum Yellow fins and not need to worry, because I know sharks don't eat shit... :fish:
Hi Kenny, have I told you that I'm impressed by your attention to detail?
Then why didn't I notice it was a red light rather than a blue light coming out of my navel? I never would have noticed it at all, if it wasn't for that Shaman, Roberto.
Kenny
P.S. No, I'm not fearful about going to PP, or Santo Tomas. Going to Phoenix? Well just a little, but don't tell anyone, OK?
I hope that I have not misselled anyting.
I am not sure if you are kidding but if you are serious you might want to take another look at your post.[/QUOTE said:
I thought he was saying he hoped he did not throw anything:o
RP is not much more dangerous now than it ever has been. There is a lot more reporting of incidents now than ever before and yes, we all need to be more careful in certain places. The fact is, we are in a recession, and that, along w/passports is the reason that PP is a ghost town right now. No money, no tourism...
RP is not much more dangerous now than it ever has been. There is a lot more reporting of incidents now than ever before and yes, we all need to be more careful in certain places. The fact is, we are in a recession, and that, along w/passports is the reason that PP is a ghost town right now. No money, no tourism...
The poor handling of the swine flu didn't help either, or the non response in Penasco to the publicity of violence in some of the mexican border towns.....
I still intend on coming down...but as I stated earlier, I'm not going to take the opposite approach from the "hysteria" crowd....where everything is "rosy"...(sorry about that, Rosy):roll::D.....and you can throw all the statistics at me that you want. There is an old saying....."figures don't lie....liars figure"....statistics can be made to say anything someone wants.
Can anyone tell what parts of town to avoid to eliminate or lessen the risk of being involved in a gang shootout? I don't think so.... I know which areas of Phoenix to avoid to lessen the risk of getting shot to an acceptable level! And if I have to go to the "dangerous" areas, like I did many years ago when I had temporary insanity and drove a taxi for a while, I can carry a weapon....something that will get you thrown into jail in Mexico!
Ghost town. Now does that make you feel better Rosie? The spelling was not lost in translation. What seems to be lost is the reality of the situation. I am always amazed with people that think a misselled word lessens the meaning of the point. Somehow the person pointing out the correction feels a false superiority over the point that is attemted to be made. I would make the observation that by your frantic postings your buesniess interest in RP are in trouble. For that I am truely sorry. I do no wish either harm or illwill on anyone. To make disrespectful comments to people with legitimate concens is very condesending. I hope that I have not misselled anyting. I would hate to be scolded again when I was just expressing any opion. If so, I am sorry that I can not live up to your spelling standards. 1. ghost 2. ghost 3. ghost 4. ghost 5. ghost 6. ghost 7. ghost 8. ghost 9. ghost 10. ghost. Now can we be friends?
1. The meaning of your post was not lost, as was evidenced in my addressing your other "points" after pointing out your sloppy spelling. So sue me if I prefer a well-thought out and intelligent dialogue (I'll use RP Joe as an example here because he and I agree on some things and not on others, but his posts are always well-written, respectful and intelligent) over your wide and sloppy approach.
2. I don't know you, so have no reason to feel superior. I do know that if what we see of each other here is our writing, then as a courtesy, if you can't be smart or witty, try shooting for funny...so far you are none of the above.
3. "Frantic postings?" Get out of here. Frequent and many does not equal frantic. And my business (note spelling) interests are plugging along just fine. I would make more money if I went out and knocked on doors to sell insurance or ads in the newspaper, but thankfully haven't had to do that. I don't have a lot of time and like my life at it's current pace (although I did come up with another idea for a new business I think would be a hit). Your snide comments aside, my business is growing and I had a five year plan to begin with, so...(buzzer sound) WRONG!
4. Disrespect is one thing and condescension is another. I respect the opinions of those who make them intelligently, wittily, or hilariously (not necessarily all at once. When it happens, I bow in admiration...watch Kenny...he hits this mark from time to time). This post is purposefully condescending, but only because I want you to learn the difference.
5. With your last remark you proved yourself as unfunny as you are tedious. It is you who have tried to make my post about spelling. Fortunately for us all, most of the others here are pretty sharp, too.
I have no doubt you'll give it another go...your type always does.
I felt a lot better after reading your opinion of what happened!
"And when the shooters went to the clinic, they hurt absolutely no one besides their intended target. Not even the police officers were threatened or attacked. Everyone was made to get on the floor, they finished their task and moved on."
I'll bet he doctors, nurses and cops inside the clinic had all of their fears relieved when they were told to "get on the floor." I am sure none of them were thinking, "oh crap, are they gonna shoot us witnesses next???"
I just got finished telling my wife and four young children to be sure to "lay on the ground" if four hooded bandits armed with Ak47's ever come into their room while in Rocky Point. This should put them at ease knowing once they "lay down" they will be okay!
Only one problem however....if four hooded bandits armed with Ak47's come into my room and tell me to "lay down" I will be screwed as I will be laying on about a weeks of undigested tacos and Tecate beer that just flew outa my a$$. With the amount of tacos I eat, I will still be 3 or 4 feet off the ground. Do you think I will still be safe since I made an honest effort to "lay down?"
NEWS BULLETIN FROM THE FRONT PAGE OF THE AZ REPUBLIC TODAY: "More vicious maching gun executions in Rocky Point. Just lay down on the ground to survive." Heck, with this in the news, I expect the gates are gonna be flooded again to get to Rocky Point!
Hey wait a minute....don't killers usually execute all available witnesses? Maybe laying them on the ground will allow them to execute them without any type of resistance! I ain't laying down for anyone....except the Black Widow of course...and even then I am only laying on my back. No butt up for me with that lady!
Azbeachboy is that a photo of Rosie? Never meet her. She is nicer looking than I had immanaged. My playground is her means of income. Yet she mocks those of us that enjoy RP as a "playground" yet profits off us buy selling insurance. I am a capatilist and all for making profits. I am oppossed to irrational, condisending folks that have no sense of humor. She needs to take a deep breath and go the beach. In fact I would say by the way these posts are going that we all do. Again I hope that my spelling is up to snuff. If not, I am just a public school guy.
There I go again with the misspelling of by and condesending. Damn those public schools. I guess that is not humorous to you but you gotta love the photo comment.
Damn your hot!
Azbeachboy is that a photo of Rosie? Never meet her. She is nicer looking than I had immanaged. My playground is her means of income. Yet she mocks those of us that enjoy RP as a "playground" yet profits off us buy selling insurance. I am a capatilist and all for making profits. I am oppossed to irrational, condisending folks that have no sense of humor. She needs to take a deep breath and go the beach. In fact I would say by the way these posts are going that we all do. Again I hope that my spelling is up to snuff. If not, I am just a public school guy.
Ha! You suggest I go relax and then you keep rattling my cage. You've just proved that I do indeed know your type. I didn't mock anyone but you. I have criticized no one but you. You're like the geeky kid in grammar school who will act a fool until the pretty, popular girl tells him to drop dead, then he's happy. Consider yourself told.
Ok everybody. Sit crosslegged on the floor, touch your index finger to thumb on each hand and repeat after me OOOOOHHHHMMMM 100 times. You will feel better!
I've been here a while now Full-time 3 years and visiting a total of 26 years. So I guess to some I am a fool to live in Penasco with its over the top crime rate (LOL) with my lovely wife and my 16 year old son. To those that feel this way I have to ask, where in the world are you going to have paradise today? (only in your head thats where)
Its kind of like the weather, it's hot in Tucson, its hot in Phoenix, its even hot in Vegas, well its kinda of hot here too, but I would still rather live near the ocean and be hot, than in a city.
So if you like living in a city where its hot thats ok with me just dont trash where I live. When its hot some stay indoors in the AC, I like to jump in the ocean.
Back to the crime, there's crime in Phx, theres crime in Tucson, heck theres even a little in Vegas and yes we have some here. No problem I would still rather live here knowing what I know than in the states. Go in to the AC its the same as not going and looking for heat in the drug trade or other neferious activities. I have never been remotely nervous about being here exept for those darn taxi drivers in traffic (ha ha). Then again I am not looking for trouble and I don't go out to the "bad" parts of town after 10:00 at night. Thats all I have to say about that, have a nice day and keep your senses - the world even yours is not perfect! By the way the weather this morning is darn near perfect for August NO HEAT AT ALL!
__________________**Posted in another thread as well**
Piss off X-Costie. Rosie gave you more regard than you deserve by trying to engage you in inteligent debate. She has an earnest message: GET SOME PERSPECTIVE.
Everything she is writing is striving to make that point.
But it's lost on you like trying to explain the concept of evolution to someone who believes Adam & Eve were a real dating couple; you reject her point because it's lost in your prejudice.
Perspective ---- that's the point, Glombus.
Rosie: you keep on keepin' on girl - some of us are listening. It's not all for naught.
I would reiterate that it is possible to disagree without being disagreable. Argumentum ad hominem although expediente is still a cheap shot by any other name and tends to put a damper on open exchange of ideas. I do agree however that Rosy deserves better treatment, not to say that she can't fend for herself. Let's keep the forum humorous but civilized.
Jim McG,
You're right. Of course I can fend for myself. And while in my own mind I always think I deserve thus-and-such, doesn't mean I expect the world to agree.
M4Shawn,
Where the heck have you been? I was about to go out looking for you. You are hereby awarded the Gallant Guy of the Week Award. Good to see you.
I too have concerns. But as long as these incidents are directed at the bad guys only, I still feel safe there. Stuff happens everywhere. If I accidently cut off another driver on a Phoenix freeway I always worry that that person may become enraged and try to make me a statistic. I am not putting my head in the sand but I realize I must becareful everywhere.
I sure wish the bad hype would stop.
It's all about perspective. The persistent (god bless 'em) voices of reason like brave Rosie in the dark of all the infuriating ignorance and bad premise are often accused of being "Rah-rah" toadies by people who just don't get it, but think they do and assume the position of "your not gonna fool this American - I know better." Ugh.
Of course this woman is more than capable of speaking for herself - I just stepped up to offer some support and not let her twist in the wind out there. If someone like X-Costie wants to get cheeky and try to rough her up, he might get a punch in the teeth (figuratively....simmer down...). No senior members need to reprimand me, X-Costie doesn't need to suddenly break out the Rodney King stuff. Grow a pair.
She just deserved some back-up - more power to her dedication. Battling tides of chaos and hysteria is exhausting stuff.
Rosie is committed to getting people to stop and think - to draw their glazed eyes away from the side-show "holy sh*t!" version devoid of context that the media keeps wailing about and sheeples keep believing.
The grand irony in every incident that has occured in Puerto Penasco is that they stand out.....precisely BECAUSE of the LACK of violence and crime that exists there. Any rudimentary examination of the tiny bit of violent crime per capita there as compared to almost any other American town, metro area, world vacation destination clearly reveals PP as overwhelminglhy safe.
I'm not going to repeat examples that both Rosie and I have given already (read: Scottsadle drive-bys April 2008 for one).
Many of us also feel strongly about what it will take to restore credibility to the investment and safety climate that exists in Penasco at present and so in many ways you are preaching to the choir. I still feel that a constructive civilized exchange is the preferred method.
It's all about perspective. The persistent (god bless 'em) voices of reason like brave Rosie in the dark of all the infuriating ignorance and bad premise are often accused of being "Rah-rah" toadies by people who just don't get it, but think they do and assume the position of "your not gonna fool this American - I know better." Ugh.
Of course this woman is more than capable of speaking for herself - I just stepped up to offer some support and not let her twist in the wind out there. If someone like X-Costie wants to get cheeky and try to rough her up, he might get a punch in the teeth (figuratively....simmer down...). No senior members need to reprimand me, X-Costie doesn't need to suddenly break out the Rodney King stuff. Grow a pair.
She just deserved some back-up - more power to her dedication. Battling tides of chaos and hysteria is exhausting stuff.
Rosie is committed to getting people to stop and think - to draw their glazed eyes away from the side-show "holy sh*t!" version devoid of context that the media keeps wailing about and sheeples keep believing.
The grand irony in every incident that has occured in Puerto Penasco is that they stand out.....precisely BECAUSE of the LACK of violence and crime that exists there. Any rudimentary examination of the tiny bit of violent crime per capita there as compared to almost any other American town, metro area, world vacation destination clearly reveals PP as overwhelminglhy safe.
I'm not going to repeat examples that both Rosie and I have given already (read: Scottsadle drive-bys April 2008 for one).
I have never specifically accused Rosy of being part of the "rah-rah crowd"....I agree with many of her posts....but not necessarily all. There have been posts by some that are "rah-rah"....and having been around enough years (I'm getting into the "old fart" range....no cracks, Kenny)....i tend to look at people's motives in what they do or say. And I'm sure that there are some that are motivated by their real estate or other business interest in Penasco. I could be motivated by my desire to see Penasco like it was 10 years ago, or 25 years ago (or like Kenny, 50 years ago), and go with "chicken little", "the sky is falling" crowd to continue to scare off any visitors. But I won't....I have enough local friends and acquaintances that are hurting severely due to the lack of visitors!
As to a blanket statement on crime....yes, I would agree that Penasco has not seen the type of violent crime that we may have in the states, but it has seen an increase in crime in general....I can't give you statistics....but 25 or 10 years ago, you didn't have the number of breakins and thefts that you see today. You didn't see the local kids on the Mirador on Sat./Sun. nights with roving bands of young "toughs" picking fights with someone, and then all trying to beat the s$%t out of that sorry individual who was stupid enough to react to their taunts, etc. I have spent many a night "closing" one of the bars along the Mirador, and saw that happening the last couple of years several times a night. I've had to escort a couple of American girls to their vehicle several blocks down, sneaking them out thru the kitchen of the bar, because one of them was almost falling down drunk, and were easy pickings for these roving groups of teenagers, or the groups of vultures in the bar....taxis were not available, since the street was closed off to traffic.
So please, don't preach to me or anyone else, that there is a "lack of violence or crime"! As I've stated several times in a couple of threads, go looking for trouble, you'll find it....anywhere in the world. Be aware of what is happening in any place that you are visiting, and you can usually avoid it! I was raised in New York City.....and was never attacked, mugged, or robbed. I used to travel the subways to the Bowery (my high school was located in the general area) and also thru Harlem to college (I was a "whitey" sitting in a subway car all by myself when groups of blacks going home from high school would get on).....even spent time at night in the Times Square area....
Be aware and avoid trouble! Part of being aware is having all the information on what may be happening in Penasco! Both sides.....the "rah-rah" and "chicken little"!!!!
It's all about perspective. The persistent (god bless 'em) voices of reason like brave Rosie in the dark of all the infuriating ignorance and bad premise are often accused of being "Rah-rah" toadies by people who just don't get it, but think they do and assume the position of "your not gonna fool this American - I know better." Ugh.
Of course this woman is more than capable of speaking for herself - I just stepped up to offer some support and not let her twist in the wind out there. If someone like X-Costie wants to get cheeky and try to rough her up, he might get a punch in the teeth (figuratively....simmer down...). No senior members need to reprimand me, X-Costie doesn't need to suddenly break out the Rodney King stuff. Grow a pair.
She just deserved some back-up - more power to her dedication. Battling tides of chaos and hysteria is exhausting stuff.
Rosie is committed to getting people to stop and think - to draw their glazed eyes away from the side-show "holy sh*t!" version devoid of context that the media keeps wailing about and sheeples keep believing.
The grand irony in every incident that has occured in Puerto Penasco is that they stand out.....precisely BECAUSE of the LACK of violence and crime that exists there. Any rudimentary examination of the tiny bit of violent crime per capita there as compared to almost any other American town, metro area, world vacation destination clearly reveals PP as overwhelminglhy safe.
I'm not going to repeat examples that both Rosie and I have given already (read: Scottsadle drive-bys April 2008 for one).
Yeah what he said.... :roll:
I have been living here for nearly 14 years, I think I could reasonablly say I'm active in our community, and frankly I feel 100 times safer living here than I ever felt on the otherside. (of the boarder)
The same is true for being in the water almost everyday like I am... there are some nasty critters out there that will definately ruin your day... it doesn't take too much common sence to stay the f**k away from them... so just use some common sense not just down here but just in general, and stop all this negitivity.... that's all I got to say about that... anybody wanna go for a swim?
I could be motivated by my desire to see Penasco like it was 10 years ago, or 25 years ago (or like Kenny, 50 years ago),
No place is as it was that many years ago. It's one of the reasons life is sweet. When I was a kid in Pitiquito we slept outside on cots in the summers. I'll never forget lying there watching Sputnik work it's way across the sky! My own kids don't know what that felt like. Sad? No, they have their own experiences about which to be nostalgic.
rockyptjoe said:
I can't give you statistics....but 25 or 10 years ago, you didn't have the number of breakins and thefts that you see today.
Of course crime has increased everywhere. The breakins and theft are more of a problem right now because of the economical situation. Way more people are out of work and hungry. Also, more people on drugs (everywhere).
rockyptjoe said:
You didn't see the local kids on the Mirador on Sat./Sun. nights with roving bands of young "toughs" picking fights with someone, and then all trying to beat the s$%t out of that sorry individual who was stupid enough to react to their taunts, etc. I have spent many a night "closing" one of the bars along the Mirador, and saw that happening the last couple of years several times a night.
This is valuable information. This can be used to help improve things. Specific information is always more helpful than blanket generalizations. The new police chief is going to need input and I expect to be front and center.
rockyptjoe said:
I've had to escort a couple of American girls to their vehicle several blocks down, sneaking them out thru the kitchen of the bar, because one of them was almost falling down drunk, and were easy pickings for these roving groups of teenagers, or the groups of vultures in the bar
Here's where we begin to part ways, Joe. These girls come down here and get "falling down drunk" and need to be safely escorted? Did you deliver a fatherly lecture along with the escort service? I would have also walked out with them (because I don't fear roving bands of anything, much less kids), but I would have let them know that if they want to do stupid shit, they should stay home and do it. You might be a tad more sensitive to them because of the age of your own daughter, something that's understandable. The last thing we need here is these kids dead, hurt, raped, or overdosed. No doubt the blame would fall on Penasco. Maybe Americans should worry more about how they're raising their children?
rockyptjoe said:
Be aware and avoid trouble! Part of being aware is having all the information on what may be happening in Penasco! Both sides.....the "rah-rah" and "chicken little"!!!!
RockyptJoe: I hear you and concur with everything you're saying. But all that pretty much goes without saying, doesn't it now? Using common sense, not responding to a**hole groups of thugs looking for trouble, being a gentleman and protecting an American girl who has become too drunk to look out for herself - OK yea; and I might see all that on Mill Avenue in Tempe/ASU on a Saturday night too.
And just because someone might also have a business interest that would be served by a little clarity and contextual truth, does not disqualify the truths they speak; why are the two mutually exclusive? Why the automatic suspicion that they aren't saying something absolutely true?
And I'm only "preaching" about P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E. So is Rosie.
Not trying to sell RP as an oasis of angelic behavior.
Just preaching the gospel of perspective. Hysteria, get Thee away from me.
For Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of ignorance, I will fear no idiot: for perspective art with me; thy rod of common sense and thy staff of accurate context they comfort me. Sort of.
No place is as it was that many years ago. It's one of the reasons life is sweet. When I was a kid in Pitiquito we slept outside on cots in the summers. I'll never forget lying there watching Sputnik work it's way across the sky! My own kids don't know what that felt like. Sad? No, they have their own experiences about which to be nostalgic.
Yeah...we all have fond memories.....even though my daughter was very young, she still remembers sitting on my lap late in the evening on the beach watching the stars, trying to figure out which was the north star (I could never get that straight)...listening to the sea lion that had taken up residence in the harbor and along the beach....
PitiquitoRosy said:
Here's where we begin to part ways, Joe. These girls come down here and get "falling down drunk" and need to be safely escorted? Did you deliver a fatherly lecture along with the escort service? I would have also walked out with them (because I don't fear roving bands of anything, much less kids), but I would have let them know that if they want to do stupid shit, they should stay home and do it. You might be a tad more sensitive to them because of the age of your own daughter, something that's understandable. The last thing we need here is these kids dead, hurt, raped, or overdosed. No doubt the blame would fall on Penasco. Maybe Americans should worry more about how they're raising their children?
The point of my comment was that there is crime and violence in Penasco.....not a commentary on how people raise their kids. My daughter is a good kid, but she makes mistakes, just like everyone does....my job as a parent is to try to make sure they are not fatal mistakes, and she learns from them. I'm not much of a drinker (although I have been known to hold my own), but that is one of the reasons that I've "closed the bar" at 3am.....keeping an eye on her (from a distance).....what's the saying...giving her enough rope to hang herself....but making sure that she doesn't. She has made her share of mistakes, but readily admits making them, and knows how to avoid many now.....but you know teenagers....they always think that they're indestructible!
I'm going to digress a bit from the original subject of the post.....There are other factors playing in the area of teenagers (male or female) getting falling down drunk in Penasco.....one is the difference in drinking age between Mexico and the US (I won't get into my own personal feelings about that), but also the attitude of most of the bar owners, particularly along the Mirador....whether they are American or Meixcan. My own personal feeling is that the Mexican owned bars are more of the culprits.....for not adequately enforcing the Mexican legal drinking age. I've been in Manny's, and frequently, there was no checking of ID's....some of the kids looked like they were 14-15, and were being served. Yes...I know...where were the parents??...but thats not the point of this discussion! There is no attempt to cut off those who are obviously drunk, or getting close (in either the Mexican or American owned bars)......and the experienced bartenders do know! There is a double standard when it comes to the Liquor Authority....enforcing the age limit, (and yes....even setting up the American bar owners)...but letting the Mexican owned bars slide. This is not hearsay....I have seen it happen. There were 2 Mexican owned bars that did open up on the weekend of the elections....however, I can only attest to one. One of the Liquor "guys" was even in that bar drinking!!!! I won't name the bar, but it is on Calle 13....Sorry for this bit of digression....I'll get off my soapbox now!!!!
PitiquitoRosy said:
It's the in-between you should want to know.
And where do we get the "in-between"......maybe some of it here on the Forum...but you still have to be able to filter out....you definitely can't trust the newspapers or even the tv news for accurate reporting....many of the stories are not thoroughly checked out in a rush to be the first to report something! Most of the reporters don't have the faintest idea of the subject matter that they are reporting....can't spell, or even use proper grammar! They impart their "feelings" rather than accurately reporting! The tv news has become more entertainment and sensationalism than news....
I tease a lot, but never said I wanted it like it was 50 years ago. A little common sense growth would have been appreciated though. You know, little things like beach access.:razz: Do you have any idea how the drive was in those day's from Phoenix? How easy it was to get lost at sea, (with a kid on board, me) if you were as crazy as my dad and uncle?
You seem to be having a midlife crises with all this age talk Joe. Personally I've never had one, but I hear they change your prospective and some with it might start hanging out at bars till they close, looking for damsels in distress.:-D
Thank God you're there for those kids, Joe. Spring Break 2007 was freezing cold real windy here. At 6am I got a call from a security guard at a hotel in the Mirador. They had a lost American kid and no way to communicate with him.
I rushed over. Here's the story:
The previous night the guard was making his rounds and was surprised to find a kid totally wasted and freezing, passed out near the swimming pool. The guard tried wake the kid, gave him a jacket, made him drink coffee. The guard didn't know how long he'd been lying there, but was glad he hadn't fallen into the pool.
When the kid wakes up a bit, still drunk, but awake...can't recall where they're staying, doesn't know what happened to his friends, is still just out of it.
The guard risked his job by walking the kid to the other hotels nearby to see if he belonged there. Nope.
Finally, the guard figured he'd done his part and left the kid at one of those hotels. Like a puppy...the kid followed the guard back to where they started. So...the guard risked his job again and put the kid in a room for the night...let him sleep it off.
Then the call to me at 6am. By now the kid is awake. Jonathon, age 19, two weeks from going into the Marines, and no idea where his friends were staying.
We spent the better part of the day cruising parking lots looking for his friend's car.
He tried to pay the guard $20 bucks for his trouble. The guard refused the money. To this day that guard will ask from time to time if Jonathon has emailed.
Rosy....there are good people everywhere....those who have a concern for their fellow man....
If you knew Jerry, you would know that's exactly what his post's were about. Goodwill toward his fellow man, and the plank for those who take advantage selfishly.
If you knew Jerry, you would know that's exactly what his post's were about. Goodwill toward his fellow man, and the plank for those who take advantage selfishly.
How nice that you defend him, Kenny...but he was unfair to me. Not a problem, we'll get past it...but he's going to learn not to disparage what I bust my ass to do when he doesn't know a thing about it. He was wrong. And the irony thread proves it.
