Rocky Point Talk archive

Rocky Point Condo Owner Fights Eviction in Lien Battle

Started by mondone · May 18, 2015 · 29 replies
mondone
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/rocky-point-condo-owner-fights-eviction-in-lien-battle-7336617
jerry
Wow...... Good HOA......Crooked little town by the sea strikes again....
lagrimas85
jerry said:
Wow...... Good HOA......Crooked little town by the sea strikes again....

By the Sea as in Seattle......If she would have gone to the registry, I bet the condo title would have had the notacion EN Litigio, or in litigation, I know, I have seen a few of those...You gotta take your paperwork to a notary, before you pay anything and at least get an opinion....The problem is between her and the seller, she opted to not get anybody with the abilility to do anything in Mexico, until it was too late....It was only her and the seller, it seems like...
jerry
A total of 4 units.How many more of those time bombs are out there?It just seems impossible that no one at that complex knew about this.I wonder what else is going on?
Last edited: May 18, 2015 at 9:54 PM
lagrimas85
jerry said:
Home many more of those time bombs out there?

Probably a bunch, not counting the oldtimers way of doing things here,,, never fix any papers and then die..makes it easy to sell the same property twice and probably legally.. I did know a few of those guy's...or use a Mexican as a prestanombre and then die, your family inherits absolutley nothing..
jerry
"Peckenpaugh says another case between Beck Group, Pelican Partners and a third party may result in 11 other homeowners in Bella Sirena losing their condos."

Think about all those people waiting for their paperwork at Laguna...

The HOA Board really looks bad it this thing....they had to know...met a guy that was member a few years ago (Chittwood I think). Like to hear him explain how this little bombshell was not in one of hoa's nice little newsletters...
Last edited: May 18, 2015 at 10:51 PM
El Tiburon
Why is the an HOA issue? Any HOA where I have lived only seems to worry about whether the landscaping is done properly and no junk cars are parked in visible areas.
jerry
El Tiburon said:
Why is the an HOA issue? Any HOA where I have lived only seems to worry about whether the landscaping is done properly and no junk cars are parked in visible areas.

No way in hell they did not know about these lawsuits... You would think they would pass this information on.They had a newsletter so it would be a good topic to discuss...
mis2810
Exactly. It's the HOA's responsibility to protect the property from liens, or to at least inform the owners there are existing liens.
El Tiburon
You are giving the HOA powers it was never meant to have. I checked with a friend who owns there. That dispute had been going on for some time. It was common knowledge. The HOA encouraged people to get their trusts in order several times over the past couple of years in the newsletters they send out. There is no HOA representative present at a real estate closing. If she purchased through a realtor I would go after them as I would think they would share the responsibility for not fully disclosing as they either had to know or should have known. I'm told the members of Pelican Partners are wealthy Seattle business people. You would think they would step up and do the right thing.
jerry
HOA was a part of this from the beginning...you could read this a couple ways...worst is HOA knew they were on the hook and it worked out well for them...the lady took the bullet for the rest of them..

https://rayraygo.files.wordpress.com/.../cmci-application... wow what a mess...when you halt the parking garage the gc then has an out...who knew!
Last edited: May 19, 2015 at 9:47 AM
El Tiburon
Interesting read. Couldn't get to the opening pages. Would have like to see the organizational chart. A lot of this probably boils down to what the HOA knew and when they knew it but the fact remains the developer took money for properties they knew were or could be subject to liens. I feel terrible for this woman's plight but I still don't understand her delay in getting the trust when she paid for the condo. She got some bad advice somewhere.
apricot
El Tiburon said:
You are giving the HOA powers it was never meant to have. I checked with a friend who owns there. That dispute had been going on for some time. It was common knowledge. The HOA encouraged people to get their trusts in order several times over the past couple of years in the newsletters they send out. There is no HOA representative present at a real estate closing. If she purchased through a realtor I would go after them as I would think they would share the responsibility for not fully disclosing as they either had to know or should have known. I'm told the members of Pelican Partners are wealthy Seattle business people. You would think they would step up and do the right thing.
apricot
Totally agree with El Tiburon. It's not an HOA matter. The HOA would not know that she had a lien on her condo. I also agree that you would think that Pelican Partners would step up and do the right thing in this case.
jerry
Certificados de Existencia o Inexistencia de Gravámenes (Certificado de Libertad de Gravamen). This costs a little over 550 pesos. I bet she did not have this brought to her attention.
Terry C
Hot Topic on Facebook Realtors
playaperro
Terry C said:
Hot Topic on Facebook Realtors

Do you have to be member of FB Realtors & need the link?.
jerry
playaperro said:
Do you have to be member of FB Realtors & need the link?.

The bad thing is none of them are being helpful...just calling her an idiot if they are not just pretending it didn't happen
playaperro
jerry said:
The bad thing is none of them are being helpful...just calling her an idiot if they are not just pretending it didn't happen

I read that this morning, the realtors pushing ampi, come on pay the notario and get it done right.
Last edited: May 19, 2015 at 1:25 PM
jerry
playaperro said:
I read that this morning, the realtors pushing ampi, come on pay the notario and get it done right.

a friend agrees " even with a trust, one has to perform due diligence, (find out if there is litigation, past, pending, ongoing, probate, boundary conflicts with ejidos, maritime federal zone issues such as a concession, liens, etc.
A Trustee should not transfer a property with issues, such as liens, litigation, etc, the property has to be free and clear from any limitation, free of any encumbrances. I have known many properties under a trust, change hands via private agreements, where the original or a successive Trust Beneficiary decided to bridge the terms of the trust and to avoid capital gains somehow persuades ,a bona fide buyer or someone trying to avoid paying attorney and notary fees and recording costs, etc, thus they keep transferring (private agreement to assign the property rights) the property from to another buyer, until someone comes along and decides to do things the right and legal way and finds all the garbage under the carpet , (which may explode underneath him when it blows up with him over it or is discovered during the due diligence process).
Concerning your question: "If someone buys now and gets a trust or signs on to an existing one does that protect them is the question I have been asked", it would depend on a doing the right thing, the due diligence and a new trusts would provide 50 years to use and enjoy the property, renewable, or someone buying a property under a preexisting trust from a trust beneficiary would continue with the remaining time left on the fideicomiso and that buyer, now known as Fideicomisario would see the new trust recorded with the Bank’s name as Trustee and his name as Trust Beneficiary (Fideicomisario) with all the protection from the law.
joanC
No doubt this is a mess, but I'm amazed how many armchair attorneys have sprung up here giving free advice. Don't forget the old axiom that you get what you pay for. I hope anyone at risk with a property seeks valid advice from someone with real knowledge and credentials.
jerry
Joan, you are in the game. What should happen to the Real Estate professional that did her in.
Roberto
Anyone know what the actual timetable of events was. 1. Date she paid for the condo. 2. Date legal proceedings actually started.
jerry
Roberto said:
Anyone know what the actual timetable of events was. 1. Date she paid for the condo. 2. Date legal proceedings actually started.

Bob read that link I provided...2005...moved in in 2009
joanC
Roberto said:
Anyone know what the actual timetable of events was. 1. Date she paid for the condo. 2. Date legal proceedings actually started.
this info from Maricopa county. if you do a search on the party names you will find lots from sonoran courts.

Case Number: CV2010-011550 Judge: Gama, J. Richard
File Date: 5/14/2010 Location: Downtown
Case Type: Civil
Party Information
Party Name Relationship Sex Attorney
Beck Internacional De Mexico S A De C V Plaintiff Andrew Kvesic
Pelican Partners International S R L De C V Defendant Pro Per
Case Documents
Filing Date Description Docket Date Filing Party
8/3/2010 JUD - Judgment 8/6/2010
NOTE: Notice of filing and entry provided to the parties
7/14/2010 NOF - Notice Of Filing 7/14/2010
NOTE: Notice of Filing Stipulation to Mediation and Arbitration
5/19/2010 AFS - Affidavit Of Service 6/8/2010
NOTE: PELICAN PARTNERS INTERNATIONAL SRL DE CV 05/19/10
5/14/2010 COM - Complaint 5/18/2010
Case Calendar
There are no calendar events on file
Judgments
Date (F)or / (A)gainst Amount Frequency Type Status
8/3/2010 F:Beck Internacional De Mexico S A De C V $17,354.06 One Time Costs
A: Pelican Partners International S R L De C V
8/3/2010 F:Beck Internacional De Mexico S A De C V $242,276.09 One Time Interest
A: Pelican Partners International S R L De C V
8/3/2010 F:Beck Internacional De Mexico S A De C V $698,876.70 One Time Judgment
A: Pelican Partners International S R L De C V
El Gato
jerry said:
"Peckenpaugh says another case between Beck Group, Pelican Partners and a third party may result in 11 other homeowners in Bella Sirena losing their condos."

Think about all those people waiting for their paperwork at Laguna...

The HOA Board really looks bad it this thing....they had to know...met a guy that was member a few years ago (Chittwood I think). Like to hear him explain how this little bombshell was not in one of hoa's nice little newsletters...
El Gato
The following was part of the Bella Sirena Oct 2012 Quarterly newsletter. There were other references in President's letters, etc., as to the need to check trusts/paperwork.

Check Your Bank Trust Status!
In recent months, it has come to light that several owners at Bella Sirena have a complication with the status of
their bank trusts, and owners are now being urged to check their status to avoid unnecessary complications and
legal issues.
Some might say, “I have proof I paid for my condo” or “I have my bank trust”, but neither of these statements
guarantees you will not run into a problem if the condo you purchased was never removed from the Master
Trust.
When a property has not been removed from the Master Trust and the developer has judgments or liens, those
seeking recompense petition the Court to allow property in the Trust to be foreclosed upon and sold at auction
to satisfy the debt. Proof of having paid for your condo will be of little satisfaction if you find out you’re in this
situation after your condo has a ‘new owner’.
If you find that your condo is one of those affected, there is an expense and a bit of time involved in clearing it
up, but that time and expense is much less that it would be if you wait until it’s too late.
Finding out whether your property has been removed from the Trust is relatively simple. Those who do have a
problem must solicit the Court to become part of the existing lawsuit (this is because no one who is not a party
to a lawsuit can get information about the status of that suit). Once part of the lawsuit, owners can simply
prove to the Court that they purchased and paid for the condo, and the Court then issues an order removing
the condo in question. After this, you must go to the Public Registry office and make sure the change has been
recorded. According to Ruben Robles Beltran for $62 pesos ($5.00 USD approximately), owners can check at
the Public Registry to make sure their properties are recorded and receive a 'Certificate of No Lien.'
Remember, the Court with jurisdiction over the lawsuit has no idea which condos should have been removed. It
is the responsibility of individual owners to research this and prevent a bad situation becoming much, much,
worse.
Lic. Lucas Sotelo was born and raised in Puerto Peñasco and has just been named Judicial Coordinator for the
city.
jerry
El Gato said:
The following was part of the Bella Sirena Oct 2012 Quarterly newsletter. There were other references in President's letters, etc., as to the need to check trusts/paperwork.

Check Your Bank Trust Status!
In recent months, it has come to light that several owners at Bella Sirena have a complication with the status of
their bank trusts, and owners are now being urged to check their status to avoid unnecessary complications and
legal issues.
Some might say, “I have proof I paid for my condo” or “I have my bank trust”, but neither of these statements
guarantees you will not run into a problem if the condo you purchased was never removed from the Master
Trust.
When a property has not been removed from the Master Trust and the developer has judgments or liens, those
seeking recompense petition the Court to allow property in the Trust to be foreclosed upon and sold at auction
to satisfy the debt. Proof of having paid for your condo will be of little satisfaction if you find out you’re in this
situation after your condo has a ‘new owner’.
If you find that your condo is one of those affected, there is an expense and a bit of time involved in clearing it
up, but that time and expense is much less that it would be if you wait until it’s too late.
Finding out whether your property has been removed from the Trust is relatively simple. Those who do have a
problem must solicit the Court to become part of the existing lawsuit (this is because no one who is not a party
to a lawsuit can get information about the status of that suit). Once part of the lawsuit, owners can simply
prove to the Court that they purchased and paid for the condo, and the Court then issues an order removing
the condo in question. After this, you must go to the Public Registry office and make sure the change has been
recorded. According to Ruben Robles Beltran for $62 pesos ($5.00 USD approximately), owners can check at
the Public Registry to make sure their properties are recorded and receive a 'Certificate of No Lien.'
Remember, the Court with jurisdiction over the lawsuit has no idea which condos should have been removed. It
is the responsibility of individual owners to research this and prevent a bad situation becoming much, much,
worse.
Lic. Lucas Sotelo was born and raised in Puerto Peñasco and has just been named Judicial Coordinator for the
city.


Wow they do lay it out but claim it is still fixable..... The dog must have eaten her news letter
lagrimas85
That's why I mentioned new times, they only reported one side...
joanC
In the off chance some of the prolific experts-on-everything on this website care about the truth, our Attorney has provided some info:

There would likely not have been a realtor involved in the sale. Developers do not normally sell new product through realtors. They employ salespeople who work in-house.

This poor woman's property was offered for sale at least twice in the court's effort to provide funds to pay the claim of the workers. The first attempt was asking for full market value. The second attempt asked for 50 % of value. There were no bids.

The court then did what courts worldwide will do: it granted the property to the workers, who followed the law in attempting to collect on their lien. Our Attorney points out the Mexican courts actually made more effort than do American courts to protect an owner's equity. She points out, as an example, in foreclosure on a tax lien in Az there is no offering of the property to the public. If the homeowner does not pay up, the investor who bought the lien gets the property clear title, and all lenders are foreclosed off title. She has seen a 300,000 home go to an investor for 24,000 unpaid taxes. Further, in most Az loan foreclosures there is no court involvement whatsoever.

There are no facts as to what notice she or the HOA received, if any.