There is an indepth article here on the effect of deported Mexicans on border towns. If anyone wants to read this, I would love to hear how this issue affects Puerto Penasco. If it does, what is happening in PP to deal with the issue?
There is an indepth article here on the effect of deported Mexicans on border towns. If anyone wants to read this, I would love to hear how this issue affects Puerto Penasco. If it does, what is happening in PP to deal with the issue?
Beer sales have gone through the roof and maternity wards are full. Most of the deported in Penasco have a very hardened look about them (criminal) and they are not the innocent down on there luck people that sometimes they are seen as. You cant help them on a one on one basis as they begin to see you as a target in one way or another. Some may disagree but I have my reasons.
Speaking of Guau Guau's my stupid cousin that used to stay in Mirador trailer park went to Guau Guau's one night and was looking for a parking spot when a guy stopped him and told him he was the valet parker, my cousin got out let the guy in and hasn't seen his little pickup since.
Beer sales have gone through the roof and maternity wards are full. Most of the deported in Penasco have a very hardened look about them (criminal) and they are not the innocent down on there luck people that sometimes they are seen as. You cant help them on a one on one basis as they begin to see you as a target in one way or another. Some may disagree but I have my reasons.
That is absolutely the most ridiculous generalization I have EVER read. You don't personally know every single deported person that has settled in PP. Bitter and hardened are 2 completely different things. You'd be bitter too if you were forcibly separated from your family. Your kind of stereotyping makes me absolutely want to VOMIT!
There is an indepth article here on the effect of deported Mexicans on border towns. If anyone wants to read this, I would love to hear how this issue affects Puerto Penasco. If it does, what is happening in PP to deal with the issue?
That is absolutely the most ridiculous generalization I have EVER read. You don't personally know every single deported person that has settled in PP. Bitter and hardened are 2 completely different things. You'd be bitter too if you were forcibly separated from your family. Your kind of stereotyping makes me absolutely want to VOMIT!
I can take you some night through Penasco Nuevo or the populated areas of San Rafael and you will see what I mean. I bet you wouldn't get out of the car let alone roll the windows down. I know the difference between Juan the farmboy with his innocent face and the look of a criminal. We have a lot of deported criminals in penasco.
I can take you some night through Penasco Nuevo or the populated areas of San Rafael and you will see what I mean. I bet you wouldn't get out of the car let alone roll the windows down.
I don't even know why I try to reason someone as ignorant as you are. So every single deport person has settled in Nuevo Penasco! I wouldn't get out of the car in the middle of Newark, New Jersey either but I don't think that every single African American person is a criminal. Pull your head out of your damn culo!
I don't even know why I try to reason someone as ignorant as you are. So every single deport person has settled in Nuevo Penasco! I wouldn't get out of the car in the middle of Newark, New Jersey either but I don't think that every single African American person is a criminal. Pull your head out of your damn culo!
I didn't say all I said most of them in Penasco. Not Mexico. I like sticking my head in my culo to escape the blind ignorance of people like you hypocrites that cant stand the truth.:moon:
I don't even know why I try to reason someone as ignorant as you are. So every single deport person has settled in Nuevo Penasco! I wouldn't get out of the car in the middle of Newark, New Jersey either but I don't think that every single African American person is a criminal. Pull your head out of your damn culo!
I resemble that remark....and I only lived in NJ for a couple of years!!!!:rofl::stir:
And I am so fed up with the politically correct way of describing the ethnic/racial background of individuals.....
I resemble that remark....and I only lived in NJ for a couple of years!!!!:rofl::stir:
And I am so fed up with the politically correct way of describing the ethnic/racial background of individuals.....
I was born in Newark, New Jersey and lived in West Orange, NJ until I was 15. I'm not a huge fan of the PC labels either, but I use them out of deference to others - it's just more diplomatic I guess. I think part of it is generational also. I grew up in the era where "black" was ok to say and anything else was insulting. Nowadays young people don't even use "black". Go figure.
I was born in Newark, New Jersey and lived in West Orange, NJ until I was 15. I'm not a huge fan of the PC labels either, but I use them out of deference to others - it's just more diplomatic I guess. I think part of it is generational also. I grew up in the era where "black" was ok to say and anything else was insulting. Nowadays young people don't even use "black". Go figure.
I am just sick of this "diplomatic" BS......used to be that you were Caucasian, Asian, Black or Native American......now we have a breakout for several "other groups".....
I want my own designation....I'm a Slavic-American!!!!!:stir: I also demand to have all "official" documents in the Czech language, a translator made available if I get arrested, and the ability to choose "Press 9 for Czech" when I call my bank or doctor's office!:rofl:
I am just sick of this "diplomatic" BS......used to be that you were Caucasian, Asian, Black or Native American......now we have a breakout for several "other groups".....
I want my own designation....I'm a Slavic-American!!!!!:stir: I also demand to have all "official" documents in the Czech language, a translator made available if I get arrested, and the ability to choose "Press 9 for Czech" when I call my bank or doctor's office!:rofl:
I'll be the first person to say that I don't think we should have to press "1" for English, or even press anything for Spanish. All these companies and agencies that have give people the chance to do business in Spanish have enabled and even crippled a lot of Mexican immigrants from assimilating!
I can take you some night through Penasco Nuevo or the populated areas of San Rafael and you will see what I mean. I bet you wouldn't get out of the car let alone roll the windows down. I know the difference between Juan the farmboy with his innocent face and the look of a criminal. We have a lot of deported criminals in penasco.
That wouldn't be a bit surprising that among the deported families and individuals there would be a lot of deported people right from the jails. But I would imagine that there a lot of deported families that do not have a criminal background, except for being stopped for a traffic violation and then found to be without papers to be in the U.S..
Most deportees go back where they came from, Penasco being a small town with lots of work never had to many go illegally to begin with and a large percentage have papers to cross legally. The deportees I am talking about are not from Penasco.
I am really interested in your opinions no matter what they are on this subject. I personally know some awefully nice women and children who have been deported back to Mexico. In several cases the husband in the family is legally here or an American citizen. The families may have 1/2 of their children that are American citizens and the other 1/2 were born in Mexico. The families are now completely separate. When we were in PP last month, I had conversations with many of the people that we met in public and asked them their stories. (I am as friendly in person as I am on this forum.) About five of the people that we talked to told me that they were deported. All of the people I talked to were working in public. They all behaved in a gentile and polite way. They were all separated from other family members.
To immigrate to the United States legally is very simple when you are married to an American, but it does take time-for my wife it was 9 months 100% of the people that have problems bring it on themselves by either something they did or didnt do and usually it was something stupid then they sit around and cry about it. I have the same problem with my stepdaughter. I shouldn't say I she has the problem she's 31. As far as the kids are concerned they may qualify and not know it for the child citizenship law that Clinton signed in 2000. Immigration will not tell you about this law.
To immigrate to the United States legally is very simple when you are married to an American, but it does take time-for my wife it was 9 months 100% of the people that have problems bring it on themselves by either something they did or didnt do and usually it was something stupid then they sit around and cry about it. I have the same problem with my stepdaughter. I shouldn't say I she has the problem she's 31. As far as the kids are concerned they may qualify and not know it for the child citizenship law that Clinton signed in 2000. Immigration will not tell you about this law.
Just goes to show how much you know. You obviously don't have any recent experience with this.
Janet...any discussions on the subject tend to get very emotional and people always seem to bring up "humanitarian" reasons to rationalize the matter, or resort to name calling, such as "bigot" or "racist".
I also know several "nice people" that are probably in the US illegally, or have moved back to Penasco after being in the US illegally. What does that really have to do with the topic?
The people you were talking about (with a spouse that is in the US legally) had the opportunity to go through the "process" to become legal....no matter how cumbersome it may be. The same can be said for those who had the opportunity in the previous "amnesties" that we have gone through. They did not.....they knew that they were illegal (or for the PC folks....undocumented), and the risks they were subjecting their families to. They were reaping the benefits of living in the US. Now, is it our fault they are being caught or are fearful of getting caught and have gone back to Mexico? Should I feel sorry for them if their families are split?
I also know several hispanic American citizens who are angry with their government and with the illegals.....they, or their parents, went through the "process" to come here legally. They now feel cheated. I may not be hispanic, but I also went throught the "process" with my parents....the legal way. They didn't feel that it was their "right" to be accepted in this nation without coming here legally.
Now as for who is to blame for all of the people coming to the US illegally....we can probably agree that the blame rests with the Mexican government, the US government for it's lackadaisical enforcement of the laws, and with US business with it's desire for cheap labor......and indirectly you can probably extend that to the US consumer, since that cheap labor has been made available....
I can take you some night through Penasco Nuevo or the populated areas of San Rafael and you will see what I mean. I bet you wouldn't get out of the car let alone roll the windows down. I know the difference between Juan the farmboy with his innocent face and the look of a criminal. We have a lot of deported criminals in penasco.
Our Community center is in the middle of Nuevo Penasco and we have been there many nights with no problems the people are for the most part the same as any other neighborhood, friendly and helpful. We also work in San Rafael and know many wonderful people there. We have been doing this now for 11 years and not only do we roll our windows down but we get out of the truck and actually interact with the people. Yes we do this at night! The biggest problem other than the adults having to acclimate themselves to Mexico is the children. Many of them have a poor grasp on the Spanish language and have to learn how to read and write in Spanish. The schools are now helping the children get up to speed. Several of the family's we met were in the US legally however had to move back to Mexico because of lack of work and the expense of renewing their visas.
Our Community center is in the middle of Nuevo Penasco and we have been there many nights with no problems the people are for the most part the same as any other neighborhood, friendly and helpful. We also work in San Rafael and know many wonderful people there. We have been doing this now for 11 years and not only do we roll our windows down but we get out of the truck and actually interact with the people. Yes we do this at night! The biggest problem other than the adults having to acclimate themselves to Mexico is the children. Many of them have a poor grasp on the Spanish language and have to learn how to read and write in Spanish. The schools are now helping the children get up to speed. Several of the family's we met were in the US legally however had to move back to Mexico because of lack of work and the expense of renewing their visas.
So "Trade", what percentage of the people in Nuevo Penasco can you estimate are deportees or returnees from the U.S.? What other issues do they have besides the lack of Spanish for the children? Have them been jobs for these families that returned? When I was there in PP, I met at least five returnees that were employed. Is that typical?
So "Trade", what percentage of the people in Nuevo Penasco can you estimate are deportees or returnees from the U.S.? What other issues do they have besides the lack of Spanish for the children? Have them been jobs for these families that returned? When I was there in PP, I met at least five returnees that were employed. Is that typical?
Trade, can you tell us about this Community Center and what is done there? What other services are available?
Our Community center is in the middle of Nuevo Penasco and we have been there many nights with no problems the people are for the most part the same as any other neighborhood, friendly and helpful. We also work in San Rafael and know many wonderful people there. We have been doing this now for 11 years and not only do we roll our windows down but we get out of the truck and actually interact with the people. Yes we do this at night! The biggest problem other than the adults having to acclimate themselves to Mexico is the children. Many of them have a poor grasp on the Spanish language and have to learn how to read and write in Spanish. The schools are now helping the children get up to speed. Several of the family's we met were in the US legally however had to move back to Mexico because of lack of work and the expense of renewing their visas.
I'm right there with you on this Harold... and I mean that literally... we have many good friends that live in this area, in fact while visiting one of them just the other day I ran into RIC (from this forum) obviously he felt is safe out there as well...
lagrimas85 what part of Penasco are you talking about???
So "Trade", what percentage of the people in Nuevo Penasco can you estimate are deportees or returnees from the U.S.? What other issues do they have besides the lack of Spanish for the children? Have them been jobs for these families that returned? When I was there in PP, I met at least five returnees that were employed. Is that typical?
I can't give you a pecentage figure but I don't think it's a large one in Nuevo Penasco as it is a somewhat older and more established neighborhood. Some of the kids have a very hard time as you can imagine going from the opulence of the US to no stores no 100 channels of TV and for some no electricity or running water. The people that are returning seem to be able to find jobs and by Penascos standards good ones thanks to knowing English and having a good set of work skills. The center is located on Lazaro Cardenas y Ave. 54 we have ESL classes for adults & children, classes on domestic violence, Bible study classes (we just finished a week long Vacation Bible School for the kids and the adults. Even the mayor of Penasco came and gave a impromptu lesson on Tuesday about the importance of believing in yourself and never giving up. We distribute 3 to 4000 lbs of food per month from the center. We have also taught sewing classes that were a great success and will be doing more in the future. If you or anyone would like to see it you can set up a time with us or Mark (Seadweller) just PM me and I will give you our phone numbers.
I am really interested in your opinions no matter what they are on this subject. I personally know some awefully nice women and children who have been deported back to Mexico. In several cases the husband in the family is legally here or an American citizen. The families may have 1/2 of their children that are American citizens and the other 1/2 were born in Mexico. The families are now completely separate. When we were in PP last month,.........
Something does not sound right, if a husband is a legal US citizen, he can petition to bring his wife, her/his children, his mother/father to live and work permanently in the USA, using a Green card. There is specific guidelines to provide proof with affidavit the entry of the person will not be a burden to society. In the case of a wife, the wife is a true wife and not a sham marriage. (greencard the 1990 romantic comedy movie)
Many non document parents go to US to have children, and then use the separation argument that they can not leave the US based anchor baby. The AZ republic had an opposite story, the father leaving his wife and children in the US while in Mexico petitions for entry as his children and wife are under undue stress with out him. He Graduated as an Engineer from ASU, but since he did not have papers was not hirable in the US.
Immigration can be a very easy process , depending on how you go about it.I chose to bring my wife and also her kids to the USA to emigrate back in 1996 when all the laws were changing and there was a much longer wait. It took my wife's older son 8 years because he aged out and had to jump through more hoops.
Yes, it can be done easily now, but not always w/o problems.
As far as the deported immigrants. 90% that you see on the streets pimping or begging are indeed a criminal element. Lagrimas stated this as fact and I know it to be fact. I am not saying 90% of the deported. The fact is that we don't see them all on the street because they have never been street people and probably never will be.
Further, my son's wife is being deported even tho she is married to a citizen and has 2 children. He cannot convince the idiots that he will suffer "extreme" hardship
if his wife is deported. I am very biased when it comes to immigration and even tho' I believe strongly that our borders need to be protected. I believe there should be a road to citizenship for the good people.
To immigrate to the United States legally is very simple when you are married to an American, but it does take time-for my wife it was 9 months 100% of the people that have problems bring it on themselves by either something they did or didnt do and usually it was something stupid then they sit around and cry about it. I have the same problem with my stepdaughter. I shouldn't say I she has the problem she's 31. As far as the kids are concerned they may qualify and not know it for the child citizenship law that Clinton signed in 2000. Immigration will not tell you about this law.
It is not that simple. It is a lot of red tape. It's a lot of hurry up and wait. And it is expensive. I went throught the process with my wife almost 14 years ago. We finally hired an immigration lawyer to expediate the process and make it easiie. Also, I have had several deported people apply for jobs at the bar. None of them seemed like bad violent people and we hired one of them. One guy who has become my friend owned 2 auto body shops in California. He had been there for something like 20 years. I'm all for legal immigration, but that is just wrong.
Immigration can be a very easy process , depending on how you go about it.I chose to bring my wife and also her kids to the USA to emigrate back in 1996 when all the laws were changing and there was a much longer wait. It took my wife's older son 8 years because he aged out and had to jump through more hoops.
Yes, it can be done easily now, but not always w/o problems.
As far as the deported immigrants. 90% that you see on the streets pimping or begging are indeed a criminal element. Lagrimas stated this as fact and I know it to be fact. I am not saying 90% of the deported. The fact is that we don't see them all on the street because they have never been street people and probably never will be.
Further, my son's wife is being deported even tho she is married to a citizen and has 2 children. He cannot convince the idiots that he will suffer "extreme" hardship
if his wife is deported. I am very biased when it comes to immigration and even tho' I believe strongly that our borders need to be protected. I believe there should be a road to citizenship for the good people.
I have first-hand knowledge of the "process". I petitioned for my husband and yes, I had to file an I-601 waiver of inadmissibility and prove extreme hardship to the US government in order for my husband to get a green card. It is not an easy process. I was one of the lucky ones - He was out of the US and in Mexico for only 2 months last summer and my waiver was approved immediately at the 2nd interview. The standards for proving extreme hardship are VERY high. They are ranked by "levels". Serious illness to the petitioner (US citizen) being the highest levels. Financial hardships rank very low at a Level 3. If your waiver (i.e., hardship letter) is not "clearly approvable", you are referred to what is called the "backlog". The backlog is where literally thousands of applications and hardship letters sit for sometimes up to 18 months waiting for the adjudicator to perform a more thorough review of your hardships. At the end of this backlog period there is no guarantee that just because the immigrant is married to a US citizen he or she will be approved for a visa. Yes, even married to a US citizen, the immigrant spouse can be DENIED a visa. During this backlog, the intending immigrant waits in Mexico separated from his or her family and children. I have personally witnessed the undue hardships this puts on families. Just the fact that having US citizen children does NOT guarantee the immigrant a visa. So, the "anchor baby" theory is nothing but absolute right wing rhetoric bullshit.
My hardship letter/waiver packet took me 5 months to prepare. The letter itself was 18 pages not including the summary, table of contents and index list. I had 70 exhibits showing proof of my extreme hardships attached to the packet. Experienced lawyers charge anywhere between $5,000 and $10,000 US DOLLARS to prepare these waiver packets. It is not an easy undertaking. I work in the legal profession so I did my own packet - it was more difficult than preparing a thesis.
Quite a few people hire lawyers with no experience in the I-601 waiver process, are completely misinformed, and are ultimately denied a visa. This is what happened with the guy in the AZ Republic article. Unfortunately, he's still being given bad information because they chose to appeal their denial, because refiling is a much quicker process, rather than filing an appeal.
If you have any questions about this, I'm happy to answer them. It's amazing how many people think that just because an immigrant marries a US citizen or has US citizen children, they are automatically granted a visa by the US government.
Just goes to show how much you know. You obviously don't have any recent experience with this.
:moon:
What are you talking about ? AS I mentioned it was easy no attorney and it was cheap. Well easy for me might not be easy to you, and if you are wondering about the Child Citizen Act just type it in your internet search. Yes I do have experience with this your involved in one immigration and you think you know it all. I am very aware simply marrying a U.S. citizen is not a license to immigrate but if you do it right its easy and cheap.
I'm right there with you on this Harold... and I mean that literally... we have many good friends that live in this area, in fact while visiting one of them just the other day I ran into RIC (from this forum) obviously he felt is safe out there as well...
lagrimas85 what part of Penasco are you talking about???
Everybodys nice when they are looking for help or a handout, Anywhere is safe until the day that it isn't.
It is not that simple. It is a lot of red tape. It's a lot of hurry up and wait. And it is expensive. I went throught the process with my wife almost 14 years ago. We finally hired an immigration lawyer to expediate the process and make it easiie. Also, I have had several deported people apply for jobs at the bar. None of them seemed like bad violent people and we hired one of them. One guy who has become my friend owned 2 auto body shops in California. He had been there for something like 20 years. I'm all for legal immigration, but that is just wrong.
Jim, for me it was simple but it took time and was not expensive
Thanks for sharing mis, I have a few ?'s for you if you don't mind sharing your knowledge about becoming legal.
PP - I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have. If it's something you don't feel comfortable putting out here on the board, feel free to send me a private message.
By the way, Most of the regulars here must be aware of the family in Puerto Penasco that adopted a baby at infancy in PP and has not been able to immigrate the child. The father and other daughter live in Arizona and the mother and beautiful little five year old live in PP. My husband and I immigrated two little girls from Tijuana in the early 70s. It was easy then, but then we had a lot of powerful help. Even the Senator of the state we lived in advocated to Immigration to assist us in the process. It cost us nothing at the time. The immigration lawyer liked us so much that he did not charge us, and referred us to the powerful Senator who asked the local immigration office to "take care of us". When immigration worked with us, they could not have been accommodating. I wish it could be like that now. The immigration officer that dealt with us, and it was one only, was the greatest guy who was married to a lady from Monterrey. We consider him like a Godfather to our girls.
For what its worth this case is almost identical to to stepdaughters case except she didn't use a passport, she used her husbands sister's birth certificate to cross and got caught just after they married and was charged with lying to a federal officer. But in her case she is in the U.S. and is issued temporary residence and work permits. Just another case of stupidity.
What the hell are you talking about? His mother brought him over when he was a kid! He didn't have any control over that.
Although that particular situation is sad....I believe the article said that he was 16...please don't try telling me that he was not aware of what his mother was doing.....
Although that particular situation is sad....I believe the article said that he was 16...please don't try telling me that he was not aware of what his mother was doing.....
When I was 15 my parents moved to Arizona from New Jersey. Trust me, I didn't want to go - I gave my parents HELL. But, still, I went, I was kid - how was I going to survive? What choice did this kid have even if he knew what his mother was doing? Stay behind in Mexico?
When I was 15 my parents moved to Arizona from New Jersey. Trust me, I didn't want to go - I gave my parents HELL. But, still, I went, I was kid - how was I going to survive? What choice did this kid have even if he knew what his mother was doing? Stay behind in Mexico?
You and your parents were not breaking federal laws to get to Az. He probably shouldn't have stayed in Mexico but unfortunatly 9 years later he has to pay the price for a decision his mother made.
You and your parents were not breaking federal laws to get to Az. He probably shouldn't have stayed in Mexico but unfortunatly 9 years later he has to pay the price for a decision his mother made.
The point I'm trying to make is that even if he knew it was wrong and didn't want to go, what was he supposed to do???? Think about it, McFly!
The point I'm trying to make is that even if he knew it was wrong and didn't want to go, what was he supposed to do???? Think about it, McFly!
At 16 I'm sure there was an extended family he could have stayed with in Mexico....the point is, he was not a little child.....where he can claim ignorance....
It is not that simple. It is a lot of red tape. It's a lot of hurry up and wait. And it is expensive. I went throught the process with my wife almost 14 years ago. We finally hired an immigration lawyer to expediate the process and make it easiie. Also, I have had several deported people apply for jobs at the bar. None of them seemed like bad violent people and we hired one of them. One guy who has become my friend owned 2 auto body shops in California. He had been there for something like 20 years. I'm all for legal immigration, but that is just wrong.
Jim, I could have a long conversation about people that "dont seem like bad violent people" with you.Toby Jeffers the person that owned and built the Cameltoe Bar is an exellent example of this. His shenanigans resulted in beatings for Jessica and eventually the deaths of both of them last year. Your friend the garage guy with 20 years in Ca. Im just using him as an example and dont know his situation, only that he is deported. If he was in California for 20 years without any papers and just got caught he probably didn't commit any crimes. However if he had a green card or Permanent Resident Card (these are for life) you only need to renew them, There are only 2 ways for him to get deported 1. He forgot to renew the card (unlikely). 2. It takes a Felony for the government to start deportation proceedings. So there are 3 choices. P.S. I also would find it hard to believe that he could run 2 garages for 20 years without papers.
Jim, I could have a long conversation about people that "dont seem like bad violent people" with you.Toby Jeffers the person that owned and built the Cameltoe Bar is an exellent example of this. His shenanigans resulted in beatings for Jessica and eventually the deaths of both of them last year. Your friend the garage guy with 20 years in Ca. Im just using him as an example and dont know his situation, only that he is deported. If he was in California for 20 years without any papers and just got caught he probably didn't commit any crimes. However if he had a green card or Permanent Resident Card (these are for life) you only need to renew them, There are only 2 ways for him to get deported 1. He forgot to renew the card (unlikely). 2. It takes a Felony for the government to start deportation proceedings. So there are 3 choices. P.S. I also would find it hard to believe that he could run 2 garages for 20 years without papers.
WTF are you talking about????? Jessica died in an auto accident when she was driving drunk...which occurred often enough for her.....and yes, I did know her....she was a very nice person...except when she was drunk! Do you have some different information you would like to share????
WTF are you talking about????? Jessica died in an auto accident when she was driving drunk...which occurred often enough for her.....and yes, I did know her....she was a very nice person...except when she was drunk! Do you have some different information you would like to share????
Yes I do she had just left my wife and was not drunk. We can talk about it later Joe and you are right about her driving anybody that I cared about was banned from getting in the car with her, Drunk or not. Its easy to dismiss her death as a drunk accident but it goes alot deeper than that. They were both very volitile people. And thats WTF im talking about. Thanks
Yes I do she had just left my wife and was not drunk. We can talk about it later Joe and you are right about her driving anybody that I cared about was banned from getting in the car with her, Drunk or not.
If you have different info, I would like to hear it some time.....you also might give the same info to Marty (of Margaritavilla). Although they had broken up a while before her death, I know he is still carrying a torch for her and took her death very hard.
Maybe you also have some "info" on the death of Arturo who was the karoake dj over at Margaritavilla? There were rumors that he was actually beaten to death at the old El Sombrero......where he was working at the time. Another troubled soul...alcohol problem, but a great person to know.
PM me....
Sorry folks for going Off Topic......but both of the individuals were friends of mine and my daughter.....
Joe, I knew Arturo is it true he was thrown of the second story of the El Sombrero? Sorry I didn't read your post correctly. Jessica told me he had been thrown off the second story. P.S. At Jessicas viewing every mafioso in town showed up and each of them to act like bigs shots said they were going to pay for her funeral well none of them did and my wife paid for it. You said she was a great person and she was.Toby and her unfortunatley met on my boat. what a disaster from the start it was bad.
Sorry Wahoo, you are mistaken. If someone is illegal in the country and they have a US citizen spouse and they only entered illegally one time and you can prove extreme hardship that person will be granted a green card. My husband will have his green card for exactly one year next Tuesday and that's exactly how we did it.
We filed the original paperwork while he was still here in the US, and when our time came we went to our appointment in Ciudad Juarez. At the first appointment people who are EWI (entered without inspection) to the US are initially denied a visa but told that they are eligible to file a waiver of inadmissibility. See my previous post in this thread for that process.
This link will explain the process for someone who came to the US illegaly one time. The various provisions of the Immigration and Nationalization Act (INA) are cited for each inadmissibility/waiver/ban.
I never said it can not be done, but that is when it becames HARD, You went to Cuidad Juarez so you applied outside not inside. My point is you need to apply from the outside not inside.
You said once someone enters illegally they are barred for life - that is not true. We did not apply outside. We originally applied from the US in 2006 and my husband lived here illegally until 2009 we left the country 2 days prior to his interview in Ciudad Juarez.
It's amazing the drift from the original subject of this thread. Over the last couple of years, I have encountered a number of Mexicans in Rocky Point, mostly working in the stores, with a very good command of the English language. I usually compliment them on their English ability, and ask them where they learned their English. Invariably, they reply that they had lived in the US for a period of time, and were either deported back to Mexico, or voluntarilly returned. I usually don't press for details. One shocked me by volunteering that he was a heroin dealer in Los Angeles, fleeing from the law. According to an ICE friend, because of the increasing illegal alien sentiment in the US, many living here illegally are self-deporting, the majority of those in the current wave with some kind of criminal record hanging over their head.
Sure, some families are broken up because of a family member living here illegally, getting caught, and subsequently deported. The same happens when a family member commits a crime, gets convicted, and is sentenced to prison. Since there is a way for a US citizen to bring a spouse legally into the US, one shouldn't whine about getting caught breaking the law. Do it right, or pay the price for stupidity.
I stand corrected, that was a generalization and you brought up good points.
MIS 2810 that is a great forum... thanks.
Thanks Wahoo. It says a lot about a person's character when they can admit that. Most people don't know how it really works. In fact, most people think that once someone marries a US citizen they automatically become a citizen as well. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain that it's not that way anymore.
If it weren't for that forum I don't know what I would have done. It's not only a wealth of information, they were my lifeline through the most stressful period of my entire life. For people going through the process only other people who've been through it or are going through it really understand just how hard it is. In fact, one year ago tonight I was trying to finish up my waiver packet. My husbands appointment was on the morning of August 6th. He was in Mexico City and I was here in Phoenix alone. It was hotter than hell out and the air conditioner in my house broke. I thought I was going to die from stress and heat stroke. I still had to pack for the trip to Juarez and finish the letter. Some of the women on that forum that I'd never even met that live here in the Phoenix area offered to let me stay at their house for the night so that I'd have air conditioning! Can you imagine the generosity? I had too much to do to take them up on the offer, but it made me feel good.
My flight to Juarez was at 8:00 in the morning and I was sitting in the airport in Terminal 4 at Chili's at 6:30 a.m. drinking ice cold Coronas and trying to finish up my letter! Aaaaahhhh memories.
Now, my husband has been legal for one year. We can travel, and begin to plan the rest of our lives hopefully without fear. Although, with the way things are in Phoenix, I'm still afraid. My friend Joe Arpaio rounds people up and asks questions about their legal status later.
I just found out this afternoon that the lady I know at my local Starbucks returned to Guadalajara with her husband and 3 US citizen children. She couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal - but their kids weren't. So much for the "anchor baby" theory.
mis - Give me a break. Joe Arpaio doesn't just "rounds people up". All his raids are conducted on the basis of court warrants, signed by a judge. Neither you nor your husband have nothing to fear. After all the time, effort, and expense that you have put in to getting your husband legal residence status, you should be resentful of those here illegally, and desire for them to be dealt with in accordance with the law.
Mexican spouses of US citizens (or foreign US permanent residents) go to the head of the line to obtain US Permanent Resident status. There are two ways of doing it: If you live in the US, and your foreign spouse has a B1/B2 Laser Visa, you can bring her here and apply for a "change of status" through your local Immigration office. This is not the "official" way of doing it, but it will work, at a higher cost for fees.
The "official" way is to apply for US resident status for your spouse before you bring your spouse into the country. This is what I did, even though my spouse had a B1/B2 Laser Visa. It was a real pain in the ass, and took about two years to complete the process, which I started while we were both living in Mexico. I had to import my spouse through the US Consulate at Ciudad Juarez, which was a farce because she was legally in the US by virtue of her Laser Visa, we drove to El Paso, and crossed over into Ciudad Juarez to complete the process.
I fully support any laws to rid our country of ALL illegal aliens. These laws are intended to protect our country, and those here legally. These laws have absolutely NO impact on my foreign wife. As far as being required to carry proof of immigration status, federal law requires ALL non-US citizens legally in the US to carry either their visa or Permanent Resident card. In Arizona, an Arizona Driver's License is adequate proof of legal residence for local authorities. For security reasons, I have instructed my wife NOT to carry her Permanent Resident Card routinely in public. Should the need ever occur, she will be able to produce it.
Mis2810- just curious, but how can an illegal work at Starbucks? Did they have an illegal SS number?
It's a fake number they use. I could go out and buy a social security card, alien registration card, and AZ driver's license tonight for a total of $100. It's unbelievable. Some of the numbers are real - that is identity theft, but the majority are not. It doesn't work with companies that use the e-verify system, and more than 50% of the companies here in AZ still do not use it. That's what frustrates me more than anything. Why not go after the employers?
As for still being afraid, well, I am. My husband looks the same today as he did before he was legal. If the factory where he works is raided I have no doubt he will be taken to a detention center. Then it will be up to me to find him in the system and prove that he is not illegal. In the end, of course, we will prove it, but can you imagine spending days in a detention center knowing you didn't have to and were taken in based on the way you look?
Mexican spouses of US citizens (or foreign US permanent residents) go to the head of the line to obtain US Permanent Resident status. There are two ways of doing it: If you live in the US, and your foreign spouse has a B1/B2 Laser Visa, you can bring her here and apply for a "change of status" through your local Immigration office. This is not the "official" way of doing it, but it will work, at a higher cost for fees.
The "official" way is to apply for US resident status for your spouse before you bring your spouse into the country. This is what I did, even though my spouse had a B1/B2 Laser Visa. It was a real pain in the ass, and took about two years to complete the process, which I started while we were both living in Mexico. I had to import my spouse through the US Consulate at Ciudad Juarez, which was a farce because she was legally in the US by virtue of her Laser Visa, we drove to El Paso, and crossed over into Ciudad Juarez to complete the process.
I fully support any laws to rid our country of ALL illegal aliens. These laws are intended to protect our country, and those here legally. These laws have absolutely NO impact on my foreign wife. As far as being required to carry proof of immigration status, federal law requires ALL non-US citizens legally in the US to carry either their visa or Permanent Resident card. In Arizona, an Arizona Driver's License is adequate proof of legal residence for local authorities. For security reasons, I have instructed my wife NOT to carry her Permanent Resident Card routinely in public. Should the need ever occur, she will be able to produce it.
I sure hope that if your wife is ever in the wrong place at the wrong time that the police, sherriff's deputies, or ICE decide to believe that her AZ driver's license is real and sufficient. Otherwise you're making a trip to the detention center. BTW, it's a Federal law that all Legal Permanent Residents must carry their Alien Registration Cards with them at ALL times. She should carry the card with her and have a copy of it at home.
Why not support the law that's been in effect since January 1, 2007 that was supposed to prosecute employers that hire illegal aliens? Why treat the sympton and not the cause of the problem? Huh?
I stand corrected, that was a generalization and you brought up good points.
MIS 2810 that is a great forum... thanks.
Although I like ms2810 very much and yes, everything she is saying is very interesting, I have to take all the credit for this interesting thread. You all have surpassed my best expectations. I did not know the law that you are mentioning, because as I said before, the immigration officer that did our Mexican national daughters' case years ago, lots of years ago, did all the paper work for us. We had to leave the country for two days to reenter legally. Believe me, we were really nervous because even then they or we could have been turned down, and we weren't. The atmosphere was much more positive then now. MIS 2810, my prayers and good wishes are with you throughout this whole process and with all others that have led good lives and deserve to achieve the dream.
mis- You are needlessly "crying wolf". You are restating what I wrote about the federal law requiring foreign residents to carry their immigration documentation. Law enforcement authorities are too busy rounding up the real offenders, to indiscriminantly round up lawful residents based on racial (ethnic) profiling, clearly against the law. I am absolutely confident that my wife will never encounter a problem proving her resident status in town during her normal daily activities. Her Permanent Resident card will remain secure in our house, unless we travel out of town.
ICE raids are conducted only after sufficient investigation leads to evidence that illegal aliens are employed at a business. The illegals are already identified and targeted. I can assure you that no matter the appearance of your husband, before or after he obtained his residence status, he will not be detained based on his looks as long as he can prove his resident status with a valid Permanent Resident Card.
I can just imagine how you feel about driving through a Border Patrol highway checkpoint with your husband. These guys do "racially profile". Frequently, they look at the people in the car, and wave you along, based on their visual evaluation, without asking any questions. I feel for how your sense of insecurity spills over on your husband.
Federal authorities have recently been focussing their raids on employers of illegal aliens, without detaining the employed illegal aliens, which they don't even encounter. ICE is required to give an employer three days notice before auditing employee records. The employer is then given the "opportunity" to fire any illegal aliens identified in the audit.
Local law enforcement authorities base their raids on enforcing the AZ state law against using false identification. Sufficient evidence must be collected in order for a judge to sign a warrant authorizing these raids.
mis- You are needlessly "crying wolf". You are restating what I wrote about the federal law requiring foreign residents to carry their immigration documentation. Law enforcement authorities are too busy rounding up the real offenders, to indiscriminantly round up lawful residents based on racial (ethnic) profiling, clearly against the law. I am absolutely confident that my wife will never encounter a problem proving her resident status in town during her normal daily activities. Her Permanent Resident card will remain secure in our house, unless we travel out of town.
ICE raids are conducted only after sufficient investigation leads to evidence that illegal aliens are employed at a business. The illegals are already identified and targeted. I can assure you that no matter the appearance of your husband, before or after he obtained his residence status, he will not be detained based on his looks as long as he can prove his resident status with a valid Permanent Resident Card.
I can just imagine how you feel about driving through a Border Patrol highway checkpoint with your husband. These guys do "racially profile". Frequently, they look at the people in the car, and wave you along, based on their visual evaluation, without asking any questions. I feel for how your sense of insecurity spills over on your husband.
Federal authorities have recently been focussing their raids on employers of illegal aliens, without detaining the employed illegal aliens, which they don't even encounter. ICE is required to give an employer three days notice before auditing employee records. The employer is then given the "opportunity" to fire any illegal aliens identified in the audit.
Local law enforcement authorities base their raids on enforcing the AZ state law against using false identification. Sufficient evidence must be collected in order for a judge to sign a warrant authorizing these raids.
Oh how I hope you are right! Do you think I want my husband to go through that? I can't explain to you why I feel this way, feelings are sometimes unexplainable - but I don't have any problem at all going through the border or through immigration in the airport with my husband. In fact, I look forward to it because I know how hard we worked for the opportunity to become legal. I feel absolutely proud when we roll up to the border in Sonoyta and I roll down my window. Then I get to do it again when we get to the 2nd checkpoint - I love it! Those CBP agents are never anything but absolutely nice to us - I've never had a bad experience with them in all the years I've been crossing with or without my husband.
For some reason I feel that CBP and the local authorities are 2 different animals, though. I can't explain it. Maybe I watch the news too much, maybe it's because for every immigration article I read, when I look at the comments below they've become increasingly hateful to downright violent. The article on Yahoo news about the latest numbers in Mexico's narco war totalling 28,000 came out yesterday. There were comments from people saying there are 12 million more Mexicans in the US that need to die. Is this really 2010? This sentiment towards Mexicans in general is what has made me feel insecure. I don't talk about this with my husband either, just so you know. He's a very intelligent and sensitive man and I'm sure he knows better than I how it feels - no need to dwell on it with him.
Mis2810- I just wanted to hear from you that that this person illegally bought a fake Social Security Card. You stated: "I just found out this afternoon that the lady I know at my local Starbucks returned to Guadalajara with her husband and 3 US citizen children. She couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal - but their kids weren't", and then stated the woman bought a fake social security card and illegally used it, and some how I'm supposed to feel sorry for her that "she couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal - but their kids weren't"? Do you think she might have been concerned about getting arrested for identity theft? What if that was my social and I had a credit problem because of her? What was the point you were trying to make?
Although I like ms2810 very much and yes, everything she is saying is very interesting, I have to take all the credit for this interesting thread. You all have surpassed my best expectations. I did not know the law that you are mentioning, because as I said before, the immigration officer that did our Mexican national daughters' case years ago, lots of years ago, did all the paper work for us. We had to leave the country for two days to reenter legally. Believe me, we were really nervous because even then they or we could have been turned down, and we weren't. The atmosphere was much more positive then now. MIS 2810, my prayers and good wishes are with you throughout this whole process and with all others that have led good lives and deserve to achieve the dream.
You could seriously do some damage to one of your arms reaching around and patting yourself on the back like that.
Oh how I hope you are right! Do you think I want my husband to go through that? I can't explain to you why I feel this way, feelings are sometimes unexplainable - but I don't have any problem at all going through the border or through immigration in the airport with my husband. In fact, I look forward to it because I know how hard we worked for the opportunity to become legal. I feel absolutely proud when we roll up to the border in Sonoyta and I roll down my window. Then I get to do it again when we get to the 2nd checkpoint - I love it! Those CBP agents are never anything but absolutely nice to us - I've never had a bad experience with them in all the years I've been crossing with or without my husband.
For some reason I feel that CBP and the local authorities are 2 different animals, though. I can't explain it. Maybe I watch the news too much, maybe it's because for every immigration article I read, when I look at the comments below they've become increasingly hateful to downright violent. The article on Yahoo news about the latest numbers in Mexico's narco war totalling 28,000 came out yesterday. There were comments from people saying there are 12 million more Mexicans in the US that need to die. Is this really 2010? This sentiment towards Mexicans in general is what has made me feel insecure. I don't talk about this with my husband either, just so you know. He's a very intelligent and sensitive man and I'm sure he knows better than I how it feels - no need to dwell on it with him.
I also think that it is sad that anyone as good as MS2810 should ever have to feel insecure and unsafe in our country. Shame on Arizona. The same feelings that you have MS2810, my daughters would have if they came down from Alaska where they live with their families and even travel through Arizona. This summer when we visit, we probably will be driving north to meet them instead of them driving south through Arizona to visit us.
I also think that it is sad that anyone as good as MS2810 should ever have to feel insecure and unsafe in our country. Shame on Arizona. The same feelings that you have MS2810, my daughters would have if they came down from Alaska where they live with their families and even travel through Arizona. This summer when we visit, we probably will be driving north to meet them instead of them driving south through Arizona to visit us.
And our daughters are American citizens and have been since they were 12 and 10 years old.
It's amazing the drift from the original subject of this thread. Over the last couple of years, I have encountered a number of Mexicans in Rocky Point, mostly working in the stores, with a very good command of the English language. I usually compliment them on their English ability, and ask them where they learned their English. Invariably, they reply that they had lived in the US for a period of time, and were either deported back to Mexico, or voluntarilly returned. I usually don't press for details. One shocked me by volunteering that he was a heroin dealer in Los Angeles, fleeing from the law. According to an ICE friend, because of the increasing illegal alien sentiment in the US, many living here illegally are self-deporting, the majority of those in the current wave with some kind of criminal record hanging over their head.
Sure, some families are broken up because of a family member living here illegally, getting caught, and subsequently deported. The same happens when a family member commits a crime, gets convicted, and is sentenced to prison. Since there is a way for a US citizen to bring a spouse legally into the US, one shouldn't whine about getting caught breaking the law. Do it right, or pay the price for stupidity.
By the way, I sure resent how much the word "stupidity" is used in some of these communications. Some like you would consider people "stupid" to desire a better way of life for their families, to be able to feed and educate them and enter another country illegally, when they see no way of doing it legally nor have any money for doing it legally. But I guarantee you that if these same people that use this word so freely, were living in the poverty that many of the families that came here illegally, lived in, and the hopelessness and lonliness for their family members that had already crossed to the other side, and they had No employment nor any way of making a living, they too, the people using the word "stupid" would cross any river or international border to another country in the hopes of earning a living.
By the way, I sure resent how much the word "stupidity" is used in some of these communications. Some like you would consider people "stupid" to desire a better way of life for their families, to be able to feed and educate them and enter another country illegally, when they see no way of doing it legally nor have any money for doing it legally. But I guarantee you that if these same people that use this word so freely, were living in the poverty that many of the families that came here illegally, lived in, and the hopelessness and lonliness for their family members that had already crossed to the other side, and they had No employment nor any way of making a living, they too, the people using the word "stupid" would cross any river or international border to another country in the hopes of earning a living.
Thank you Janet! You put the words to the feelings so eloquently.
Miramar - I didn't ask you to feel sorry for anybody. But don't you think it's a bit hypocritical that using fake social security numbers has been going on for DECADES and all of sudden it's become this huge issue? Wasn't it the government that left the back door to the border open and looked the other way for 20 years after Reagan's amnesty in the 80's? I don't recall all the construction companies, factories, etc., complaining to the feds that they were being overrun by Mexicans looking for work. No, they quietly hired ALL of them and systematically drove down the wages. Why? Because it was good for their profit margins! Whenever there is a financial crisis in any country there always has to be a scapegoat. This time it's the Mexicans.
Thank you Janet! You put the words to the feelings so eloquently.
Miramar - I didn't ask you to feel sorry for anybody. But don't you think it's a bit hypocritical that using fake social security numbers has been going on for DECADES and all of sudden it's become this huge issue? Wasn't it the government that left the back door to the border open and looked the other way for 20 years after Reagan's amnesty in the 80's? I don't recall all the construction companies, factories, etc., complaining to the feds that they were being overrun by Mexicans looking for work. No, they quietly hired ALL of them and systematically drove down the wages. Why? Because it was good for their profit margins! Whenever there is a financial crisis in any country there always has to be a scapegoat. This time it's the Mexicans.
And in our house, we are so concerned about this scapegoating.
The other thing that was mentioned on here - I think by Smilin' Jack - is that now that my husband is legal I should be resentful of illegals. How does that work? I automatically change how I feel about millions of people just because my husband has a new item in his wallet? I should start resenting my brother-in-law because he works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week? My husband and I were lucky we had the opportunity to get him legal. People like my BIL don't have that opportunity to have someone petition for them.
with this being the case when will we have legal murder, how about legal drunk driving. How about what happend to a very close and dear friend of mine who was killed by an illegal who was driving drunk. This person also had fake id. Should we over look this because he was impoverished in his home country? I have some very close friends who immigrated to this country legally and I have a few guys who I have hired that are still on work visa's they are working on becoming legal citizens the correct way. They are embarrased by all of the protest most of which are from people outside of AZ. ie 11 busloads of protesters from L.A.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to get a better life but lets do it the right way.
with this being the case when will we have legal murder, how about legal drunk driving. How about what happend to a very close and dear friend of mine who was killed by an illegal who was driving drunk. This person also had fake id. Should we over look this because he was impoverished in his home country? I have some very close friends who immigrated to this country legally and I have a few guys who I have hired that are still on work visa's they are working on becoming legal citizens the correct way. They are embarrased by all of the protest most of which are from people outside of AZ. ie 11 busloads of protesters from L.A.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to get a better life but lets do it the right way.
Of course we shouldn't overlook this! This person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law as a murderer. But, whose fault is it that they're here in the first place? If someone's house gets robbed because they forgot to lock the door, wouldn't you say, "Well it's your fault because you didn't lock the door!" The US government left the door unlocked!!! Why is that so hard to comprehend?
Not every illegal Mexican is a murdering, drunk driver, either. There's a lot of white people that drive drunk, too.
On December 23, 1994, I was driving home from work and was hit by a Mexican man with no driver's license, and no insurance. I was MAD! I'm ashamed to say it now, but I went home and told everyone I knew that these people had no right to be here, why don't they just load them all up on busses and send them back to Mexico. Obviously, I wasn't married to my Mexican husband at the time. I didn't have any personal contact with any Mexicans in my little, narrow, white and corporate world. Unless you count the ladies cleaning the bathrooms at the office, that is. Over the years, I became interested in Latin music, especially salsa dancing and my interraction with all sorts of hispanic people became normal for me - from the illegal Mexican landscaper, to the Dominican ex-Major League baseball player who overstayed his visa, that I would dance with at Pepin's in Scottsdale. Once I put personal faces, names and stories to this issue, it opened up my mind to the human reality of it. I can't blame millions of people, most of whom are honest and hardworking, for the bad things that other people do.
Mis2810, I believe you did want us to feel sorry for her when you said: She couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal. I think the use of SSNs has become more prominent as the tax laws have changed, requiring employers have SSNs. I saw the impact of this when working at a tax software company this tax season. There were a very LARGE number of calls from people whose 1040s were rejected by the IRS because their W-2 information didn't agree with the IRS's W-2 info. When they called to find out why, they found another person was using their SSN. Until they were able to get the issue resolved, their tax form couldn't be processed and any money they were getting back was put on hold.
Just because this has happened in the past doesn't mean we need to continue with this practice. All companies need to verify their employees are legal and should be punished when they choose to hire illegal workers. By the way, I'm sure Starbucks was paying the woman regular wages which are pretty good- my son was a Barrista at Starbucks.
Mis2810, I believe you did want us to feel sorry for her when you said: She couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal. I think the use of SSNs has become more prominent as the tax laws have changed, requiring employers have SSNs. I saw the impact of this when working at a tax software company this tax season. There were a very LARGE number of calls from people whose 1040s were rejected by the IRS because their W-2 information didn't agree with the IRS's W-2 info. When they called to find out why, they found another person was using their SSN. Until they were able to get the issue resolved, their tax form couldn't be processed and any money they were getting back was put on hold.
Just because this has happened in the past doesn't mean we need to continue with this practice. All companies need to verify their employees are legal and should be punished when they choose to hire illegal workers. By the way, I'm sure Starbucks was paying the woman regular wages which are pretty good- my son was a Barrista at Starbucks.
You can believe that I wanted you to feel sorry for her, but that really was not my intent. So, then why isn't the government punishing employers that hire illegals? Tell me why? Since 2007 when the law in AZ went into effect there has only been one company that was prosecuted. What about all the other companies that Good Ol' Joe has raided? Why isn't it MANDATORY that companies use the e-verify system? It's all a smoke screen to get people riled up and blame it all on the illegal workers. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain - a la "The Wizard of Oz"! The man behind the curtain is hiring the illegal workers!!!
Of course we shouldn't overlook this! This person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law as a murderer. But, whose fault is it that they're here in the first place? If someone's house gets robbed because they forgot to lock the door, wouldn't you say, "Well it's your fault because you didn't lock the door!" The US government left the door unlocked!!! Why is that so hard to comprehend?
Not every illegal Mexican is a murdering, drunk driver, either. There's a lot of white people that drive drunk, too.
On December 23, 1994, I was driving home from work and was hit by a Mexican man with no driver's license, and no insurance. I was MAD! I'm ashamed to say it now, but I went home and told everyone I knew that these people had no right to be here, why don't they just load them all up on busses and send them back to Mexico. Obviously, I wasn't married to my Mexican husband at the time. I didn't have any personal contact with any Mexicans in my little, narrow, white and corporate world. Unless you count the ladies cleaning the bathrooms at the office, that is. Over the years, I became interested in Latin music, especially salsa dancing and my interraction with all sorts of hispanic people became normal for me - from the illegal Mexican landscaper, to the Dominican ex-Major League baseball player who overstayed his visa, that I would dance with at Pepin's in Scottsdale. Once I put personal faces, names and stories to this issue, it opened up my mind to the human reality of it. I can't blame millions of people, most of whom are honest and hardworking, for the bad things that other people do.
That's like saying whose fault is it that the girl got raped? She shouldn't have been wearing those revealing clothes!!! The law doesn't differentiate between a house being robbed with the door unlocked or locked! It does not make it "legal" if the door was unlocked!!! Why is it so hard for YOU to comprehend!
And as someone else posted....I also know people who have become "legal" the right way...and they support the enforcement sof the immigration laws.
That's like saying whose fault is it that the girl got raped? She shouldn't have been wearing those revealing clothes!!! The law doesn't differentiate between a house being robbed with the door unlocked or locked! It does not make it "legal" if the door was unlocked!!! Why is it so hard for YOU to comprehend!
And as someone else posted....I also know people who have become "legal" the right way...and they support the enforcement sof the immigration laws.
Then why talk about security all the time? We have to secure our border, blah, blah, blah . . . we have to get a handle on who is coming in and out this country - they could be terrorists, they could have nuclear weapons, they might want to clean our toilets or mow our lawn! Oh my!
I can't blame millions of people, most of whom are honest and hardworking, for the bad things that other people do.
I don't blame them for wanting to make a better life for themselves....BUT.... I can blame them for trying to do so by breaking the law to begin with! Hey, I'm going to rob a bank to get my start....but I promise to be an upstanding citizen afterwards! :twisted: Yeah...I know...a little exaggerated as an analogy....but true!
I don't blame them for wanting to make a better life for themselves....BUT.... I can blame them for trying to do so by breaking the law to begin with! Hey, I'm going to rob a bank to get my start....but I promise to be an upstanding citizen afterwards! :twisted: Yeah...I know...a little exaggerated as an analogy....but true!
If the government that created this law doesn't respect the law, then why should the people contemplating breaking it respect it?
How many US citizens know that it's illegal to cheat on their taxes but they still do it? Because people know that when there is a good chance they're going to get away with something without any consequences, they do it anyway.
Then why talk about security all the time? We have to secure our border, blah, blah, blah . . . we have to get a handle on who is coming in and out this country - they could be terrorists, they could have nuclear weapons, they might want to clean our toilets or mow our lawn! Oh my!
Apples and oranges......
We were talking about "legal" and breaking the law......
Yes...there is a huge danger of terrorists coming in thru the sieve of a border with Mexico....that is another good argument for tightening the security of our borders. If I wanted to bring a nuclear device into the country, I wouldn't fly it in or send a couple of missiles our way....I would walk it across the Mexican border.....or Canadian border. :ostrich:
JanetandClint: Are you not driving through Arizona this summer because you are upset at SB1070? I didn't quite understand why you are driving north rather than through AZ.
If the government that created this law doesn't respect the law, then why should the people contemplating breaking it respect it?
How many US citizens know that it's illegal to cheat on their taxes but they still do it? Because people know that when there is a good chance they're going to get away with something without any consequences, they do it anyway.
Because it is the law......that should be enough! You're rationalizing.....
The tax cheaters are playing russian roulette.....they may get audited.....having gone thru and IRS audit once, even though I "won" on every issue, I would not want to do so again.....that is enough incentive for me not to try to cheat. The "illegal" immigrants played russian roulette and some lost....they shouldn't complain.....
Because it is the law......that should be enough! You're rationalizing.....
The tax cheaters are playing russian roulette.....they may get audited.....having gone thru and IRS audit once, even though I "won" on every issue, I would not want to do so again.....that is enough incentive for me not to try to cheat. The "illegal" immigrants played russian roulette and some lost....they shouldn't complain.....
Yeah, God forbid, anyone actually thinks rationally about this issue.
Yeah, God forbid, anyone actually thinks rationally about this issue.
In psychology and logic, rationalization (or making excuses[1]) is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation, to differentiate from the original deterministic explanation, of the behavior or feeling in question.[2][3] It is also an informal fallacy of reasoning.[citation needed]
In psychology and logic, rationalization (or making excuses[1]) is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation, to differentiate from the original deterministic explanation, of the behavior or feeling in question.[2][3] It is also an informal fallacy of reasoning.[citation needed]
mis2810....I never said that it is not an emotional issue, like religion or politics, and most people discuss it more with their emotions rather than logically.
We've all been guilty of rationalization on some topic....."it's wrong, but it's ok to do it because xxxxxxxx....."
And I need to stop posting for a while....Kenny was catching up to me the last week or so, and I've gone bonkers the last couple of days.....:rofl: