Personally, I'm fed up with reading/hearing tale of woe after tale of woe in the paper/media about all the poor illegal immigrants and their problems. Illegal is not a race and I'm tired of it being made to be a racist issue. It's not. Personally, I don't care if you're brown, white, yellow, green, or purple -- if you're here illegally, you should be deported. Why is that we, as Americans, are held to this much higher "holier-than-thou" standard by the rest of the world? Hell, in most other countries, if you're illegal you get a) shot; or b) beat nearly to death, robbed, then deported. Mexico (and the rest of the world, for that matter) should clean up their own damned corrupt backyards before they start pointing out any weeds in ours. Illegals here get treated with kid gloves. They wouldn't want to be an illegal in their own country!
Personally, I'm fed up with reading/hearing tale of woe after tale of woe in the paper/media about all the poor illegal immigrants and their problems. Illegal is not a race and I'm tired of it being made to be a racist issue. It's not. Personally, I don't care if you're brown, white, yellow, green, or purple -- if you're here illegally, you should be deported. Why is that we, as Americans, are held to this much higher "holier-than-thou" standard by the rest of the world? Hell, in most other countries, if you're illegal you get a) shot; or b) beat nearly to death, robbed, then deported. Mexico (and the rest of the world, for that matter) should clean up their own damned corrupt backyards before they start pointing out any weeds in ours. Illegals here get treated with kid gloves. They wouldn't want to be an illegal in their own country!
In RockyPointJoe's famous last words: "You're rationalizing." Just because other countries treat them badly doesn't mean that we should! LOL Sorry Stuart, I couldn't help myself. :p
Personally, I'm fed up with reading/hearing tale of woe after tale of woe in the paper/media about all the poor illegal immigrants and their problems. Illegal is not a race and I'm tired of it being made to be a racist issue. It's not. Personally, I don't care if you're brown, white, yellow, green, or purple -- if you're here illegally, you should be deported. Why is that we, as Americans, are held to this much higher "holier-than-thou" standard by the rest of the world? Hell, in most other countries, if you're illegal you get a) shot; or b) beat nearly to death, robbed, then deported. Mexico (and the rest of the world, for that matter) should clean up their own damned corrupt backyards before they start pointing out any weeds in ours. Illegals here get treated with kid gloves. They wouldn't want to be an illegal in their own country!
I agree with you wholeheartedly, the US Gov has totally dropped the ball on this and now it has to be fixed and the fixing isn't going to be easy. We have to seal the border, then we have to issue work permits based on a person's ability to stay out of jail and off of welfare and then send the rest packing. Most of these people don't want citizenship (remember the Mex flags at the protest) so why offer it to them...work permits are fine if they are upstanding people..gang people need not apply.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, the US Gov has totally dropped the ball on this and now it has to be fixed and the fixing isn't going to be easy. We have to seal the border, then we have to issue work permits based on a person's ability to stay out of jail and off of welfare and then send the rest packing. Most of these people don't want citizenship (remember the Mex flags at the protest) so why offer it to them...work permits are fine if they are upstanding people..gang people need not apply.
I completely agree with what you said. Getting it does is the rough part.
Hummm, Wonder if "BUD LIGHT" sales are down in Arizona up in Penasco...
So funny that you say that. Last time we were down there my husband pointed out to me how all the Mexicans were drinking Bud Light and all the gringos were drinking Corona! LOL
Yesterday we had an incident when a TPD officer pulled over a nicely dressed Mexican Girl. She had a Mexican driver license on her and they called the border patrol and they came with one of those dog catcher trucks and off to the immigration place on golf links. She had forgotten her laser visa at home. It took her family 4 hours to get her out of "JAIL".
JanetandClint: Are you not driving through Arizona this summer because you are upset at SB1070? I didn't quite understand why you are driving north rather than through AZ.
First of all we are completely opposed to the law. Second we still drive through Arizona. But then my husband and I are "Anglos", so we don't expect to be stopped and asked for our id. Our daughters who were adopted in Mexico years ago are coming down from Alaska to meet us and we don't want them to have to drive through Arizona. Now in the end, they may decide to do so, but we have offered to meet them north of Arizona, where they want to meet us. They have lived a life in Washington State and Alaska in which they have not had to prove that they were American citizens because their skin is brown.
Wlhat part of the law don't people get???? The police aren't going to be stopping someone just based on their appearance and checking for ID.....it is only if they get stopped for some other violation. PLUS....that part of the law has an injunction against it until it get's resolved thru the court system. Everyone is so hyper about the "potential" abuse of the law when no one has demonstrated that there will actually be racial profiling.
Yeah.....yeah....yeah....the system is not perfect. I got stopped once at night coming back from Penasco right outside Ajo when I had my OLD chevy van. The "excuse" the sheriff used was that I was driving eratically and crossing the middle line.....I was not....and I was following the changing speed zones religiously, since I am well aware of the speed traps. The sheriff just wanted to look in my van to see if I was running drugs or "illegals"! Should I be screaming "vehicle profiling"??? :stir:
Anyone that is here legally with the laser visa, is required to carry it.....so...Boo Hoo.....she should have had it with her....and it cost her 4 hrs.
Don't break the law, and it is highly unlikely you will be stopped.....
Yesterday we had an incident when a TPD officer pulled over a nicely dressed Mexican Girl. She had a Mexican driver license on her and they called the border patrol and they came with one of those dog catcher trucks and off to the immigration place on golf links. She had forgotten her laser visa at home. It took her family 4 hours to get her out of "JAIL".
Happened on 4 Ave in Tucson...
That's exactly what I'm talking about!!!!! They see her and they say, "Oooh, looky there - we got ourselves a brown one!"
All this hub bub about SB1070....how about the ability of the Border Patrol to search you without a warrant within a specific distance of the border....I don't recall if it is 100 or 200 miles....this was discussed on here some time ago......why isn't someone making a stink about that????
How about the grief we have to go thru if we fly...going thru the security screening.....taking off shoes and belts, women having to make sure they have no underwired bras, ad nauseum!!!! You don't think there is profiling going on there....including racial profiling? Thank gawd I don't have to travel for work like I used to....
Yesterday we had an incident when a TPD officer pulled over a nicely dressed Mexican Girl. She had a Mexican driver license on her and they called the border patrol and they came with one of those dog catcher trucks and off to the immigration place on golf links. She had forgotten her laser visa at home. It took her family 4 hours to get her out of "JAIL".
Happened on 4 Ave in Tucson...
Playa....why was she pulled over to begin with? I'm sure there are plenty of nicely dressed Mexican girls (that are legal) driving around Tucson....oh stop....that's right, there are no nicely dressed mexican-american girls in Tucson!!!:hairout:
All this hub bub about SB1070....how about the ability of the Border Patrol to search you without a warrant within a specific distance of the border....I don't recall if it is 100 or 200 miles....this was discussed on here some time ago......why isn't someone making a stink about that????
How about the grief we have to go thru if we fly...going thru the security screening.....taking off shoes and belts, women having to make sure they have no underwired bras, ad nauseum!!!! You don't think there is profiling going on there....including racial profiling? Thank gawd I don't have to travel for work like I used to....
I've never had a problem with my bra! LOL! Sorry, Joe, just trying to make a little funny out of this serious topic.
"Excuse me Ma'am. You're going to have to remove your bra and place it in the tray, please." :rofl:
Wlhat part of the law don't people get???? The police aren't going to be stopping someone just based on their appearance and checking for ID.....it is only if they get stopped for some other violation. PLUS....that part of the law has an injunction against it until it get's resolved thru the court system. Everyone is so hyper about the "potential" abuse of the law when no one has demonstrated that there will actually be racial profiling.
Yeah.....yeah....yeah....the system is not perfect. I got stopped once at night coming back from Penasco right outside Ajo when I had my OLD chevy van. The "excuse" the sheriff used was that I was driving eratically and crossing the middle line.....I was not....and I was following the changing speed zones religiously, since I am well aware of the speed traps. The sheriff just wanted to look in my van to see if I was running drugs or "illegals"! Should I be screaming "vehicle profiling"??? :stir:
That's exactly what I'm talking about!!!!! They see her and they say, "Oooh, looky there - we got ourselves a brown one!"
Yeah right....in between the cops hitting the donut shop or taking naps under a tree or overpass, or molesting some woman they stopped for a dui to "work off" her crime, they have the time to go "looking" for some "brown one" to harass!!! PUHLEEEEZE!!!!:stir:
I've never had a problem with my bra! LOL! Sorry, Joe, just trying to make a little funny out of this serious topic.
"Excuse me Ma'am. You're going to have to remove your bra and place it in the tray, please." :rofl:
And if you're having trouble with the snap, I'd be glad to help you, ma'am!!!!:rofl:
I agree that it is a VERY serious topic....but most of these discussions go the route of hysteria about something that MAY happen.....
if a cop is shown to have broken the law (racial profiling), then prosecute the cop....don't go into a lather over something that hasn't happened. The same holds true for any law....
Yesterday we had an incident when a TPD officer pulled over a nicely dressed Mexican Girl. She had a Mexican driver license on her and they called the border patrol and they came with one of those dog catcher trucks and off to the immigration place on golf links. She had forgotten her laser visa at home. It took her family 4 hours to get her out of "JAIL".
Happened on 4 Ave in Tucson...
this thread is still going strong;
so Playa was the "Nicely dressed" added by you or that was how this story was labeled by TUC news to add to the fray?
Is it legal to drive in Arizona with out a US drivers license? Did she have insurance? Was the car registered to her?
You need to provide a US drivers license, insurance and registration once stopped for an offense. I am sure this nice gal was not just stopped for her looks or nice Mexican looking dress. There must have been a traffic violation and then she failed to produce the required documents that WE all have to give the peace officer. DL. Reg. proof of insurance. This gives us the privilege not the right to drive here. Was it on TV? What is their link to hear the "rest of the story".
Off Topic.....but I always wondered about the insurance that the mexican drivers have when they visit the US LEGALLY. From what I know, and this could be wrong, Mexicans are required to carry auto insurance in Mexico. Foreign visitors are also required to carry at least liability insurance written on a mexican insurance company (Rosy has gone thru the specifics on this forum a few times).
So, does the mexican insurance the mexicans have on their vehicles cover them for liability in the US????. I have seen a couple of agencies on the mexican side of the border selling what appears to be insurance for the US. I wonder how many stop to buy it? If it does not, aren't all of them breaking AZ law?
BTW....many countries have reciprocity of some kind when it comes to driver's licenses....although in Europe, I believe you need to get an international license of some sort....it's a formality of paying the fee if you have a valid US state driver's license.
Janetandclint,
Believe me, just because your kids are of Mexican descent doesn't mean they're going to be pulled over. If that were the case, 1/3 of the state would be showing their papers or in jail. I have friends who were born in Mexico and live in Tucson, many of my friends are latino, along with my aunt who is Costa Rican but now an American citizen, and they are all in favor of the law and not worried about getting asked for ID.
I thought you were refusing to drive through AZ because of your disagreement with the law and I was going to point out, if you want to make it to Penasco, it would be a long and dangerous drive through Juarez to Penasco just to avoid AZ.
My husband was driving back from Penasco last year in our Chevy Astro van- favorite of drug smugglers, and he was pulled over about half way from Penasco to Sonoyta. When asked why he was pulled over, the police said they thought he was smuggling guns, aliens or drugs. He had to show them his "papers"- AKA FM3, and he showed them he had the tools to prove he was working on our house. Even though he was legal in Mexico, he didn't take offense to that, and we haven't boycotted Mexico.
"Tucson Police stopped a woman for failing to stop at a stop sign, and ended up calling Border Patrol, and it is all caught on tape."
"Cruz was acting as a translator for the woman being questioned. She said officers asked the woman to show a license, but TPD said all she could provide was a Mexican driver's license and an expired passport."
So, what's the problem.....she didn't have the proper documents with her...and she was stopped for running a stop sign.....which is the normal driving procedure in Penasco!!!!:rofl:
The "running of the stop sign" was a set up for the cops. The woman from Derechos Humanos "happened" to be right there to act as a translator because she doesn't speak English, she leaves her legal visa at home, but carries her expired passport and Mexican drivers license with her. SET UP.
Thanks Playa; this helps, let everyone judge for themselves.
operative words, she RAN A STOP Sign and toward the end.... she refused to speak to the Immigaration when asked where she was from and that she wanted to talk to her lawyer.
The "running of the stop sign" was a set up for the cops. The woman from Derechos Humanos "happened" to be right there to act as a translator because she doesn't speak English, she leaves her legal visa at home, but carries her expired passport and Mexican drivers license with her. SET UP.
Wow...we now have a network of people who just happen to be available to run to a location based on text messaging to record the "racial profiling" done by the TPD.....only in the movies!!!
They would do more for their community if they reported the locations of drug houses, maybe even filming the REAL illegal activity going on. Oh, but that wouldn't be notable on Youtube.....and they might even get shot!
Thanks Playa; this helps, let everyone judge for themselves.
operative words, she RAN A STOP Sign and toward the end.... she refused to speak to the Immigaration when asked where she was from and that she wanted to talk to her lawyer.
Thanks for the video Cabo.....how in hell is this a result of SB1070???....that part of it has an injunction against implementation....
BTW...from the Youtube site.... Adding comments has been disabled for this video.
Personally, I don't see that the officers did anything wrong. She ran a stop sign. "They called Border Patrol to verify her identity." She didn't want to answer questions about her citizenship, the officers didn't press her on the issue and turned it over to the agency that handles these matters. Completely by the book, as far as I can tell. Officers were allowed to do this before SB1070 took effect. Nothing has changed in that regard. Why is this even news? Making this a video about SB1070 is just one big lie.
And Pan Left "happened" to be right there on 4th Ave with video so they could be the first with a specific instance against SB1070. Unfortunately, the Tucson Chief of Police Villasenor, who is against SB1070, said his officer did everything right in this case.
Correct me if I'm wrong....if I ran a stop sign I would get pulled over by the police if they witnessed it. If I didn't have my proper ID, my insurance card and my registration for the vehicle and refused to talk to them I would end up in jail. She ended up w/ICE because she had an EXPIRED passport showing she wasn't a citizen. What is the big deal?????
The Susan Bolton temporary injunction prohibits police officers from enforcing the part of the AZ STATE LAW against being in the state illegally. It does not prohibit police officers from questioning someone detained about their citizenship, and turning that person over to ICE if they have reason to believe that person is in the country illegally. That has not changed.
Some constitutional authorities claim that Susan Bolton has no constitutional authority to rule on certain state issues, including SB 1070. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
It amazes me, that there is more sympathy for the Cartels, illegals (who ever they are or where they come from or what their intentions are) than those that are actually upholding the laws of the land; PROTECTING YOUR HOMES, YOUR FAMILIES, YOUR SCHOOLS, YOUR CHILDREN!
Our border patrol, our citizens are in harms way with this ravenous drug culture, which WE have allowed into our country! Doesn't anyone see what the Cartels are doing to Mexico?
When it comes to your neighborhood, then you'll be crying for the law enforcement to help you. But, oh, they can't because law enforcement might get sued for "profiling"!
The foreign criminal elements are well aware of our weakness, and unwillingness to enforce our existing laws. DHS tells us that Mexican drug cartels are running drug distribution operations in 267+ of our major cities. The cartels are brazen enough to set up marijuana growing operations in our national parks, and national forests. They use illegal alien labor, working off their debt for being smuggled into our country. On the national news, you see the plants being "busted" and ripped up, but no one is ever arrested. Why? Mexican drug cartels have even set up communication relay towers in the Arizona desert! Again, the radio relay stations are discovered and taken down, but no one is arrested! Are our law enforcement authorities already intimidated by, and afraid to confront the powerful Mexican drug cartels operating in our country? Or, are they bribing our authorities in order to operate in our country? It's very suspicious when there are big drug busts with no arrests.
We have to quickly wake up and insist that all of our laws be enforced. ALL illegal aliens must be rounded up and deported, and those who employ them prosecuted in accordance with the existing laws. The Mexican drug cartel problem and the illegal alien problem are one and the same. If we can't control WHO comes into our country, we can't control WHAT comes into our country.
If we have proper control the border, there will be no fighting between the Mexican drug cartels for drug corridors into the US. If we continue to ignore the nature of the threat, we will soon see the cartel assasinations spill across the border into our country. These people have no respect for borders, and will use whatever tactics are necessary to accomplish their objectives. Assasination is a powerful tool that they have proved to work and be very effective in Mexico. Anyone who believes that this will stop at the border is a total fool. "Plata o Plumbo".
Personally, I don't see that the officers did anything wrong. She ran a stop sign. "They called Border Patrol to verify her identity." She didn't want to answer questions about her citizenship, the officers didn't press her on the issue and turned it over to the agency that handles these matters. Completely by the book, as far as I can tell. Officers were allowed to do this before SB1070 took effect. Nothing has changed in that regard. Why is this even news? Making this a video about SB1070 is just one big lie.
The Susan Bolton temporary injunction prohibits police officers from enforcing the part of the AZ STATE LAW against being in the state illegally. It does not prohibit police officers from questioning someone detained about their citizenship, and turning that person over to ICE if they have reason to believe that person is in the country illegally. That has not changed.
Some constitutional authorities claim that Susan Bolton has no constitutional authority to rule on certain state issues, including SB 1070. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
It amazes me, that there is more sympathy for the Cartels, illegals (who ever they are or where they come from or what their intentions are) than those that are actually upholding the laws of the land; PROTECTING YOUR HOMES, YOUR FAMILIES, YOUR SCHOOLS, YOUR CHILDREN!
Our border patrol, our citizens are in harms way with this ravenous drug culture, which WE have allowed into our country! Doesn't anyone see what the Cartels are doing to Mexico?
When it comes to your neighborhood, then you'll be crying for the law enforcement to help you. But, oh, they can't because law enforcement might get sued for "profiling"!
The foreign criminal elements are well aware of our weakness, and unwillingness to enforce our existing laws. DHS tells us that Mexican drug cartels are running drug distribution operations in 267+ of our major cities. The cartels are brazen enough to set up marijuana growing operations in our national parks, and national forests. They use illegal alien labor, working off their debt for being smuggled into our country. On the national news, you see the plants being "busted" and ripped up, but no one is ever arrested. Why? Mexican drug cartels have even set up communication relay towers in the Arizona desert! Again, the radio relay stations are discovered and taken down, but no one is arrested! Are our law enforcement authorities already intimidated by, and afraid to confront the powerful Mexican drug cartels operating in our country? Or, are they bribing our authorities in order to operate in our country? It's very suspicious when there are big drug busts with no arrests.
We have to quickly wake up and insist that all of our laws be enforced. ALL illegal aliens must be rounded up and deported, and those who employ them prosecuted in accordance with the existing laws. The Mexican drug cartel problem and the illegal alien problem are one and the same. If we can't control WHO comes into our country, we can't control WHAT comes into our country.
If we have proper control the border, there will be no fighting between the Mexican drug cartels for drug corridors into the US. If we continue to ignore the nature of the threat, we will soon see the cartel assasinations spill across the border into our country. These people have no respect for borders, and will use whatever tactics are necessary to accomplish their objectives. Assasination is a powerful tool that they have proved to work and be very effective in Mexico. Anyone who believes that this will stop at the border is a total fool. "Plata o Plumbo".
" Plata o Plumbo" U dumb shit its "Plata o Plomo"...
Sorry about that. My error. "Lead" is spelled differently in different languages.Thanks for the spelling correction. However, you could at least be polite about it, and not resort to derogatory name calling over a spelling error.
Smilin' Jack - You said something to the effect of "letting this ravenous drug culture into our country". That ravenous drug culture was already here - the cartels wouldn't be fighting over the drug routes if Americans were ravenous consumers of drugs.
Mis2810, Last night I told myself not to read this forum anymore, because it is so disappointing to me to see the selfish, egocentric, views of the majority of the contributors to this thread. I really didn't think that so many Arizonan would have the views expressed here. If the views expressed here are the majority views of the citizens of Arizona, we are doomed, as a caring, sharing people. You are the light shining in the darkness, so I will continue to read it because of you. For me you are the intelligent, enlightened voice. If you give up, write me on PM and I am done.
Mis2810, igLast nht I told myself not to read this forum anymore, because itis so disappointing to me to see the selfish, egocentric, views of the majority of the contributors to this thread. I really didn't think that so many Arizonan would have the views expressed here. If the views expressed here are the majority views of the citizens of Arizona, we are doomed, as a caring, sharing people. You are the light shining in the darkness, so I will continue to read it because of you. For me you are the intelligent, enlightened voice. If you give up, write me on PM and I am done.
:deadhorse:
If you could start over I would me more than happy to accompany you with my violin.
That's exactly what I'm talking about!!!!! They see her and they say, "Oooh, looky there - we got ourselves a brown one!"
This is a complete race-baiting sham. This "brown" talk is straight out of the NAACP and ACLU playbook. Is it any wonder Al Sharpton marched down the streets of PHX wearing a Suns Jersey?? This whole issue has nothing to do with race and has EVERYTHING to do with ILLEGAL immigration. The irony though is that 90% + of illegals in the US are of Mexican decent. That's not racial profiling, that's a fact.
As you stated prior, emotion is playing a big part in your paradigm. Completely understandable given your experience, but not necessarily rational or correct. Same goes for janetandclint not having their Mexican-American daughters drive through AZ??? Come on, if that isn't total emotional irrationality, then someone's got bigger problems on their hands. Emotion is what causes some to justify something ILLEGAL as OK. I often hear from the pro Illegal side, "What would you do if you lived in Mexico and all you wanted was to give your family a better life? " That is like saying that I am starving or my family is starving so everyone should just turn a blind eye as I walk into Safeway and help myself to the store's groceries. The emoters would probably say that is ok and they had to do what they had to do. The cops would say, you are going to jail. That's how it should be. It's really a very rudimentary concept if you take the emotion out of it. You and janet should give a run at that.
You both seem like good people and it's a shame that you buy into the likes of Al Sharpton. Making this a race issue total diverts the truth and seriousness of the matter.
YES, PERSONALLY... as in my interpretation of the events after watching and studying the video twice. Your "personal" interpretation may be different.
What in the hell is your problem? You add nothing and do nothing put nitpick and criticize everybody on this forum. Why don't you take a vacation for two weeks?
Mis2810, Last night I told myself not to read this forum anymore, because it is so disappointing to me to see the selfish, egocentric, views of the majority of the contributors to this thread. I really didn't think that so many Arizonan would have the views expressed here. If the views expressed here are the majority views of the citizens of Arizona, we are doomed, as a caring, sharing people. You are the light shining in the darkness, so I will continue to read it because of you. For me you are the intelligent, enlightened voice. If you give up, write me on PM and I am done.
Hardly!!!!!
As someone else has posted on here.....your views have a basis in emotion.....the views expressed by some of us are based on the fact that laws are being broken.
I have no problem with immigration....I am an immigrant myself.....but it needs to be legal immigration. Congress seems to be able to adjust the various visa levels, for example, engineers/scientists, based on business pressure. Congress needs to be pressured to fix the system we have now. Come up with a guest worker program for those positions that us lazy americans don't want to do if that is required. Make sure those with visas don't stay illegally! Make the track to citizenship fair and less cumbersome...without the bureacratic mumbo jumbo! But fix the problem!
Smilin' Jack - You said something to the effect of "letting this ravenous drug culture into our country". That ravenous drug culture was already here - the cartels wouldn't be fighting over the drug routes if Americans were ravenous consumers of drugs.
mis - You are absolutely correct. It is a repeat of the prohibition era. The only thing that we have learned from history is that we don't learn from history. You cannot make illegal something that there is a popular demand for. I guess you can, but it doesn't reduce the market, only increasing the cost of the product, and makes a profitable market for those who choose to deal with something that is in demand, but illegal. Incredible tax-free profits for those dealing in illegal substances, while the government winks, while most of us legitimate, law-abiding souls pay confiscatory taxes on our earnings.
Colombia has been one of the top recipients of US foreign aid for "drug suppression". In spite of the billions of dollars we have sent to Colombia, the price of cocaine has gone down.
Change the status on these substances, removing the profit motive, and the problem goes away. The only problem is that doing so would eliminate a huge government bureaucracy, putting many federal agents out of work. Not a problem for me to save my tax dollars.
In the hopes that legalization of drugs would reduce violence in both countries, I would support this. I think all our efforts should be in education and rehabilitation. Besides if people can drink alcohol if they chose, I think drugs should be a choice that people should be able to make. Of course, the law should hold all people responsible for driving not under influence of any substances, and if work places do not want workers that are using drugs, that will be their choice too.
And Pan Left "happened" to be right there on 4th Ave with video so they could be the first with a specific instance against SB1070. Unfortunately, the Tucson Chief of Police Villasenor, who is against SB1070, said his officer did everything right in this case.