Importance of Social Distancing

brokenwave

Well Known Member

Buffalo Marty

Well Known Member
Thanks brokenwave. I've been thinking about how and when we can slowly "open up" again, and I can't figure out how that happens prior to a vaccine being widely available (which is probably a year away). The only alternative I see would be to re-open slowly so the medical care system is not overwhelmed, while accepting that most people will end up getting exposed to the virus anyway, but just spread out over a longer time period.

In that scenario (assuming the medical system is not overwhelmed), most people would get the virus over the next 12 months, and those who died would not die because of inadequate care, they would simply die because of what the virus does. (sorry, I know that sounds callous, but it is reality) Is society willing to accept that scenario? If not, wouldn't we just have to pretty much keep things as they are now, whereby vulnerable people never get the virus at all because everything is shut down?

I understand that antibody testing and "herd immunity" could help slow the spread, but over 12 months isn't it likely that most people will eventually get exposed to covid one way or another? (unless we stayed quarantined as we are now) What am I missing? I'm not trying to start another wild political shouting match, I really want to understand what are the possible next steps- I would love thoughtful feedback.

Specifically regarding Peñasco, almost everything about a beach town involves groups of people from all over mixing together (beaches, pools, bars, nightclubs, restaurants, malecon, catamarans, etc). How on earth could things go back anywhere close to normal this year, unless everyone just said "F it" and rolled the dice? I hope for the best, but prepare for the worst...
 

Roberto

Well Known Member
Good discussion. I think about it also from a slightly different perspective. . The experience should change the way people approach a lot of different circumstances and situations in the future. This is not a situation that people will forget for generations. I don't think things will ever go back to 'normal' as pre Noro. Being locked up in your own house for weeks is a pretty strong motivator to change. It will be interesting to see how things change in environments like Penasco that historically have been meeting places for people from all over.

It is particularly interesting as it is an experience that the entire world has had simultaneously. It will certainly created a bond among those of us who survive it. Last I can recall was Polio but that was not as extensive. Everyone worried about that and I had dreams of being in one of those big respirator tanks for the rest of my life.

Hand washing is a good example. The medical community has told us for a long time that the single best thing you can do to protect your health is wash your hands carefully and and frequently. Frequent hand washing among the populace would probably have reduced the impact of this virus tremendously. I have to believe that this experience will reinforce that message in a big way, particularly parents to children who then , hopefully will grow to be habitual and frequent hand washers, thereby markedly reducing the spread of many diseases.

Hand sanitizers. again I think we will see a huge increase in regular use in home, businesses, restaurants. I would be buying stock in it if it was possible. If you think about it you will come up with lots more situations, like old fashioned hand shaking !! KISSING. No more of that on the first date ! Wearing face masks in public is common in Japan so i think it will be more common here now.

A vaccine is pretty far off under the best of circumstances. I puzzle over what criterion will health officials use to declare no more quarantine also. My son told me that China has lifted the quarantine in many places including where it was first identified. Apparently lifting the restrictions is dependent on the occurrence frequency rate of the diagnosis over time. Especially if that time period is equal to the number of days the illness usually continues.
So if the disease lasts an average of 30 days you could safely lift the quarantine in say 45 days if there are no new diagnoses. That assuming that the conditions are the same everywhere.

The best hope at this juncture is for a treatment medication , like an antibiotic. It would work quickly and be relatively easy to distribute. Especially so if and existing medication ,something like Ivermectin, proves effective in treatment of those infected. That drug has several huge advantages. It is readily available all over the world right now. While not approved for human use at this point, it has been, in effect, through several lengthy steps of approval.

I am hoping for other perspectives on this issue. We are not gonna come up with a cure from this forum but discussing it among intelligent people is helpful to reduce the boredom and isolation. Although things get crazy on the forum from time to time I know there are many thoughtful and intelligent folk here. I hope Stu keeps a finger on the Ban button.

Well I am gonna sneak outside and walk around my yard ! Facemask, gloves and glasses on of course. !!
 

Kenny

Well Known Member
Forum Supporter
From the link above: New to me!!

While hand-washing is a vital way to reduce one's risk of contracting COVID-19, those aforementioned droplets can also travel from the outside world into your home on the bottom of your shoes. In order to keep your home coronavirus-free, you should remove your shoes when you come inside.
You know how small particles of dust looks like in the air when it's highlighted by the sun coming through the window, that's how I picture the virus traveling when it's airborne with no particular place to go. Yes, I know it doesn't travel in a pack, but it's out there traveling around the world on anything it can settle on. If I worked in a hospital I would certainly think of my shoes as a possible carrier, but then if I worked at a hospital I would already know I worked in a dangerous place.... Close to a month ago I'd guess, my friend went in for the removal of some tissue, colon cancer, and it went fine until some shit landed on his ankle that soon wanted everything, starting with his leg. It was nip and tuck there for a few days and cutting his leg off was the option, but they did save his leg. He's still in the hospital.
I've been thinking about the masks and thought that most people in PP would except the idea of wearing masks more readily than in the states, and I was pleased to see that Naomi was making them for distribution. People have been making them at home here in the Verde river valley the very same way, at home for distribution to family friends and whoever needed one.
 

Mexico Joe

Cholla Bay 4 Life
Good discussion. I think about it also from a slightly different perspective. . The experience should change the way people approach a lot of different circumstances and situations in the future. This is not a situation that people will forget for generations. I don't think things will ever go back to 'normal' as pre Noro. Being locked up in your own house for weeks is a pretty strong motivator to change. It will be interesting to see how things change in environments like Penasco that historically have been meeting places for people from all over.

It is particularly interesting as it is an experience that the entire world has had simultaneously. It will certainly created a bond among those of us who survive it. Last I can recall was Polio but that was not as extensive. Everyone worried about that and I had dreams of being in one of those big respirator tanks for the rest of my life.

Hand washing is a good example. The medical community has told us for a long time that the single best thing you can do to protect your health is wash your hands carefully and and frequently. Frequent hand washing among the populace would probably have reduced the impact of this virus tremendously. I have to believe that this experience will reinforce that message in a big way, particularly parents to children who then , hopefully will grow to be habitual and frequent hand washers, thereby markedly reducing the spread of many diseases.

Hand sanitizers. again I think we will see a huge increase in regular use in home, businesses, restaurants. I would be buying stock in it if it was possible. If you think about it you will come up with lots more situations, like old fashioned hand shaking !! KISSING. No more of that on the first date ! Wearing face masks in public is common in Japan so i think it will be more common here now.

A vaccine is pretty far off under the best of circumstances. I puzzle over what criterion will health officials use to declare no more quarantine also. My son told me that China has lifted the quarantine in many places including where it was first identified. Apparently lifting the restrictions is dependent on the occurrence frequency rate of the diagnosis over time. Especially if that time period is equal to the number of days the illness usually continues.
So if the disease lasts an average of 30 days you could safely lift the quarantine in say 45 days if there are no new diagnoses. That assuming that the conditions are the same everywhere.

The best hope at this juncture is for a treatment medication , like an antibiotic. It would work quickly and be relatively easy to distribute. Especially so if and existing medication ,something like Ivermectin, proves effective in treatment of those infected. That drug has several huge advantages. It is readily available all over the world right now. While not approved for human use at this point, it has been, in effect, through several lengthy steps of approval.

I am hoping for other perspectives on this issue. We are not gonna come up with a cure from this forum but discussing it among intelligent people is helpful to reduce the boredom and isolation. Although things get crazy on the forum from time to time I know there are many thoughtful and intelligent folk here. I hope Stu keeps a finger on the Ban button.

Well I am gonna sneak outside and walk around my yard ! Facemask, gloves and glasses on of course. !!
I agree some with Marty and Roberto. I think testing would help immensely. Until a vaccine I just don't understand how you can be sure that there won't be any further spread when we know that there are asymptomatic subjects. I've actually considered twice in the last week and half that I could possibly be an asymptomatic. I guess how would you know? I've still been going to the grocery store, hardware store and Autozone for a few car parts in the last few weeks. I haven't experienced any symptoms at all in the last 12 months. I can't even remember the last time I was sick.

But yes, I do agree that until testing is more widely available and or we have a vaccine this is going to be temperamental. I know I keep saying this but two things that "woke" me up as Roberto describes having peoples lives change may make them reconsider how they go about life in the future, being paraplegic and having to use catheters and subsequent MRSA in 2012 only a year and a half after becoming paraplegic. If you know anything about MRSA or any of these mutant super STAPH bacteria then you know how hard it can be to be completely sterile. I learned a vast amount of information as it relates to infectious disease and how to not contaminate and keep sterile. It is so hard. You would literally need to de-cloth BEFORE entering your house and wipe down with anti-bacterial to be completely sterile. I would say one thing that I learned is that, it is extremely difficult to be completely sterile. I had two 42 day stays in a infectious disease isolation room at St Joes and Banner Good Sam. Anyone else ever done 84 days in an infectious disease isolation room?! Anyone that enters the room has to go full PPE. Must be de-clothed of the PPE before exiting to not contaminate outside of the room. It's hard work. Plus if you know anything about STAPH bacteria, it is FOUND ON LITERALLY EVERYTHING. Only difference between a respiratory disease like COVID and bacteria like STAPH is that you can only contract STAPH through an open wound. That is why we don't have more staph infections than we do. Most public places have staph bacteria. Gyms, schools, offices. 98% of the population would never have to worry generally. This is mostly why staph related cases are confined mostly to bed ridden or wheelchair ridden subjects. Pressure ulcers are the main way someone contracts super staph. Catheter use is also another thing that changed my life to how bacteria spreads and how you contract bacteria. Catheter use, you have to be COMPLETELY sterile. If your skin or anything touches that thing before entering, you have about 12 hours before infection starts setting in. First couple of years I was horrible about my sterile technique but after you get a few of those infections you start to adapt. The paraplegic learning curve is STEEP! I honed my sterile skills and NEVER get infected anymore. I suspect the learning curve for the adaptation of new life after COVID will be somewhat steep for the average public.

The other part that I sincerely worry about is misinformation. How can you go about opening up life or changing the way we live our lives to compensate for this disease when 30% of the population believes in misinformation? It is a genuine question not meant to start an argument.
 
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