Quail Creek Bible Study Rocky Point Visit

#21
Kenny said, "Tree hugging bleeding heart liberals like me can still kick some :eek:; so don't forget to duck. :ham: "

Don't worry Kenny. I can get you help for that. It's a one step program. Call 1-800-FOX-NEWS. :rofl:
 

Kenny

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#23
Don't worry Kenny. I can get you help for that. It's a one step program. Call 1-800-FOX-NEWS. :rofl:
Fox news is like a drug that makes people stupid instead of high. In short, people who watch fox news need rehab to get off it.
 
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#25
Daily Kos: Teen Challenge: Coercive groups disguised as rehab I'm glad it worked for your Grandson but watch them..
On a side note I knew a Jack Mormon kid that went because it was that or jail and he was told Mormonism was the devils religion...they also have a TeenChallenge Bible and take away your King James Bible ....but hey a boot camp is what some people need....
Jerry, thanks for the info from the Daily Kos. I particularly liked the un-named sources used. Well, here is my name, Jack Hecker and here's my experience with Teen Challenge.

Teen Challenge is a national program. I don't know how all of them are run, but I can vouch for the Tucson, New River branches. I also have experience with the Cincinnatti one.
First the Cincinnatti branch. That is run by a George Martin and my experience is that it appears to be a rehab joint for rich kids from the Proctor & Gamble ilk. One of our family went there
for alchohol rehab and was told he could go on an overnight pass after two weeks and the day he was told by his wife she was taking the kid and leaving. You can guess what happened. By the way he's now
out here and doing quite well in the second month of induction. When asked how he could do that, Mr. Martin replied that he was not running a rehab center he was trying to develop followers.

As far as the Tucson branch is concerned, I cannot vouch for the Mormonism comment, but I will look into it. Kris has used the Bible I gave him from day one. Yes they do have their own Bible,
but Kris was always allowed to use his. Is it like a boot camp? Yes it is, you bet. And Jerry, you are absolutely right, some people do need a boot camp. I did sixteen weeks for the good old USA
and look how well I turned out. :D It wasn't fun, but to this day, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. What does one learn in boot camp, disciipline. What does it take to break addiction?
Discipline. It works for many, not all. I have seen kids from there rather go to jail than go through the program. I have also seen some with multiple felonies come out the other side and become productive
citizens.

Wouldn't it be great if there were a majic wand you could wave and cure everyone. There isn't, but this has worked for many.


As far as the Daily Kos, are you kidding me? I could have sworn you would have used the Glenn Beck Journal!!!! :jerry2:
 

Kenny

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#27
For the record I have no felonies, and I never sought "rehab" to avoid any court action. To be able to work with the type of individuals I've worked with you have to be finger printed, and then they are ran through the national data bank to make sure you have not only no felonies, but charges that involve violence of any kind.

DISCLAIMER.. That in no way means I'm not a dangerous man.:veg:
 
#30
Jack ,Teen Challenge is A Assembly of God outfit...here is the Assemblies view of Mormonism Is Mormonism Christian?
Man oh man, I hate it when you are right Jerry. Teen Challenge is affiliated with the Assembly of God and that article certainly provides a thesis of "Gotcha" Theology.
This is nothing new. There has been an "I'm more Christian than you" for ages. I cannot condone the practice. I believe that live and let live should be the credo.
But back to Teen Challenge. While looking around yesterday I stumbled accross an article written by a graduate of Teen Challenge. The writer has been sober for
seven years, yet knocked the program in many ways. One was the assertion by the program that they had an 85% success rate. I agre that number has to be scewed
someway. The writer suggested it should be 5% or less. I think that's off base also. There is one thing I do know. It works for some and doesn't for others. The reason
is motivation. The writer also was very pro the Twelve Step Program. I say, great, again whatever works. I did find it interesting that the writer had been sober for seven years
and it started at Teen Challenge.

Years ago, in the '60's in another life, I was Quality Control manager for an aerospace machine shop. A gentleman, Phillip Crosby, at Martin Marrietta in Orlando, Florida started a program that
became famous. It was called "Zero Defects". I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Crosby and discussing it with him. When asked if zero defects was obtainable, his response was interesting.
He said, "Jack it is most likely that complete zero defects is unobtainable. That however is the goal. The progress we make as we approach the goal is the reward." I think that's the apporoach
we should take when trying to determine the best treatment for addiction. Be it Betty Ford, Twelve Step, Teen Challenge, whatever, if it works and helps one soul, that's what makes it all
wothwhile. If it helps many souls that's a greater reward. The evil is the addiction, not the people who sincerely attempt to defeat it.
 

jerry

Well Known Member
#31
The part where I ramble begins here............I used to work for a bookie at Tahoe in the 70's after I became sick of being broke....He basically laid off bets (pre internet days)for bookies living off degenerate gamblers from around the country.The only way some guys lost the craving to gamble was to lose everything...a couple times...
.I know a guy that works in Peru for a mining operation.....he has been a high functioning employee for 20 years keeping a processing operation running while having a world classcoke habit (he uses an ounce of Bolivian Flake a week!) he makes 5k a week and spends 500 of that on blow. Maybe if drugs were just cheep we would have less problems
 

Kenny

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#32
I've been around recovery programs since the late 60's when my dad went to the first federally funded programs for drugs and alcohol at Camarillo State Mental Hospital in Cali. At that time Roberto, Gestalt type therapy was thought to be the way to go. After seeing failure after failure in friends who went to programs with the end results being relaps and death, and as in my my dad's case, death; I didn't think any kind of program worked at all until 83 when I got sober the first time with a 12 step program... I was very closely involved with some of the best programs in N.M. when I was over there in the late 90's and early 2000's and I was encouraged to get my LSAA&LADAC certificates.New Mexico - LSAA & LADAC Training | Distance Learning and go to work for one of the agencies over there, but I had other work to do.

The most common number used in the REAL recovery business is 1 out of 10, with the success rate going down from there the older the client was, along with other factors. My hands on experience has shown me that's probably a very close number. Anyone who says their program has a 85% success rate is a lier, PERIOD!!
 
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Roberto

Well Known Member
#33
According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual the use of a drug is not of as diagnostic importance as the effects on the person's functioning.
Use alone will not result in a diagnosis. The legal business is different of course.

The part where I ramble begins here............I used to work for a bookie at Tahoe in the 70's after I became sick of being broke....He basically laid off bets (pre internet days)for bookies living off degenerate gamblers from around the country.The only way some guys lost the craving to gamble was to lose everything...a couple times...
.I know a guy that works in Peru for a mining operation.....he has been a high functioning employee for 20 years keeping a processing operation running while having a world classcoke habit (he uses an ounce of Bolivian Flake a week!) he makes 5k a week and spends 500 of that on blow. Maybe if drugs were just cheep we would have less problems
 

jerry

Well Known Member
#34
My heroin recovery story...1970 at Purdue university deep in the heart of America we used to volunteer for all medical/scientific tests that paid money.A ad in the underground newspaper brought us to a industrial lab where our heavy Heroin habits would be taken off our backs by taking an IV of Scopamine (called "The twilight Sleep" by our ex-junkie recruiter.)if we lasted for 2 weeks we would get a grand eachNone of us except the guy just back from his low draft number induced free trip to SouthEast Asia had ever really chased the dragon but we talked a good game thanks to William Burroughs and were accepted.It was my best drug experience ever. A two leek long hallucination inducing downer dream fest while they had us listen to chanting and subliminal messages.We all walked out heroin free with a grand each in our pockets The project closed up after some bad press .
 

Kenny

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#35
A drug with a name very close to that, Scopolamine, is used for sea sickness.

I'm glad you told that story Jerry, it explains a lot.:razz:
 
#36
My heroin recovery story...1970 at Purdue university deep in the heart of America we used to volunteer for all medical/scientific tests that paid money.A ad in the underground newspaper brought us to a industrial lab where our heavy Heroin habits would be taken off our backs by taking an IV of Scopamine (called "The twilight Sleep" by our ex-junkie recruiter.)if we lasted for 2 weeks we would get a grand eachNone of us except the guy just back from his low draft number induced free trip to SouthEast Asia had ever really chased the dragon but we talked a good game thanks to William Burroughs and were accepted.It was my best drug experience ever. A two leek long hallucination inducing downer dream fest while they had us listen to chanting and subliminal messages.We all walked out heroin free with a grand each in our pockets The project closed up after some bad press .
I'll take some of that for my next colonoscopy. :-D
 

Kenny

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#38
Looks like you got off easy..
Scopolamine has been used in the past to treat addiction to drugs such as heroin and cocaine. The patient was given frequent doses of scopolamine until they were delirious. This treatment was maintained for 2 to 3 days after which they were treated with pilocarpine. After recovering from this they were said to have lost the acute craving to the drug to which they were addicted.
...
Nevertheless, approximately one in five emergency room admissions for poisoning in Bogotá have been attributed to scopolamine. In June 2008, more than 20 people were hospitalized with psychosis in Norway after ingesting counterfeit Rohypnol tablets containing scopolamine.
There have also been reports of tourists being robbed after having scopolamine slipped into their food or drink. Recently, these incidents have been reported in Thailand.
...
The effects of scopolamine were studied by criminologists in the early 20th century In 2009, it was proven that Czechoslovak communist secret police used scopolamine at least three times to obtain confessions from alleged anti-state conspirators.

Check it out!!Scopolamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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