Beware the slide pool at the Sonoran Sky!You may end up in a 3rd world clinic!!

moore_rb

Stay Thirsty My Friends
#81
A forum members relative walked into traffic when blitzed and was badly injured.The state ended up paying for some of this individuals care.I think the state should be able to sue the bar if they over served and the driver if they were speeding to get my money back that I provided (gladly via taxes) for another fellow flawed man.
What the hell does "over-served" mean...?

Law can not exist without legal definition. Please define over-served.

Maybe bars should be legally bound to breathalyze their customers after every round and cut them off when they reach .01...?

Of course - everyone knows that .01 is the point that the fun is really JUST beginning, right?

Hmmmm.... maybe I'm onto something here. Actually, this might just solve a great many problems - no more "over serving" in bars would mean no drunks leaving bars and getting behind the wheel as well... and since revenues would decline, perhaps soon there would be no more bars at all since they would all close shop...

Eventually, we could have someone standing by ready to breathalyze you before you get in your car at home, too... you know, just to make sure you are not "over-serving" yourself at home...

Hey! Wait! We could tie the breathalyzer technology right INTO your car's ignition so that your inebriation prevents you from being able to drive anywhere at all...

I knew it! Technology can solve ALL our societal problems, leaving the arcane nature of laws (and common sense) in the stone ages where they belong...


Hot damn! freedom and liberty will soon no longer be necessary for the human race. Our eternal happiness will be forced upon us by our own callous indifference to what it really means to CHOOSE our own destiny.

Awesome.
 

moore_rb

Stay Thirsty My Friends
#83
Kenny- my point is that the law can not exist to make society liable (or accountable) for the consequences of stupid personal decisions.

Law is designed to DEFINE the consequences for actions that society deems unacceptable. Personal decisions (like whether to abide by laws, or to willfully violate them) will ALWAYS belong to the individual (no matter how blazed, ripped, stoned, or drunk the poor fool happens to be when they make the decision)

Decisions (like opinions) are our private property - we are responsible for their existence (no matter our state of mind), and we are accountable for their indelible effects on those around us in society.

The consequences of poor decisions (or the detrimental effects of misguided actions) can not be "diluted" by attempting to legally spread the grief equally among everyone else.

It has never worked. it does not work, and it will never work...

Better we (society) should work to dismantle laws that are ineffectual, and enforce and prosecute those that do seem to work.

What well-formed laws enforce in reasonable consequence, ill-formed laws (like trying to define how much a bar should be allowed to serve its patrons) destroy in personal freedom.

And thus, we end up with an incarcerated inmate population that is 80% composed of small time dope smoking idiots, while truly sociopathic criminals like "the honorable" John S. Corzine are partying in the Hamptons and snorting blow off hookers' tits after facilitating the "legal" theft of Billions from the accounts of legitimate hard working agricultural commodity producers...

But hey- Corzine is a highly effective campaign fund bundler for your man in DC, so he can't really be as bad as all those evil pot-smokers in prison, can he...?
 

garyd

Well Known Member
#86
really easy to see who leans left and who leans right after reading this thread. Big Govenment or personal responsibilty. Hmmmm
 

Kenny

Well Known Member
Forum Supporter
#87
really easy to see who leans left and who leans right after reading this thread. Big Govenment or personal responsibilty. Hmmmm
I stated "For myself I've never filed a lawsuit, or been on disability, though I'm sure I could have won a lawsuit or two, and for sure collected disability insurance. And I could honestly add that I can't remember when I last collected a unemploment Check..... How many of my right wing friends can say the same?

Most of you read into this stuff the way you want to see it..Do I like the dram act? Hell no, they tried to get me to testify in behalf of a plaintiff, and when I wouldn't they threatened me with some such bull. Four $ lawyers, and I'm sure they weren't Dem's, sat me down in a room by myself after being subpoenaed, and threatened me with all kinds of stuff. I told them to get ######.... But hey, would I possibly take the law into my own hands if someone's irresponsibility killed one of my loved one's, or maybe even a good friend? You bet your sweet ass I might.
 
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jerry

Well Known Member
#88
really easy to see who leans left and who leans right after reading this thread. Big Govenment or personal responsibilty. Hmmmm
Gary you loved you some big Gov when Bush was attacking the wrong country and most likely when you get "your" medicare....
 

garyd

Well Known Member
#89
Sometimes I lean left and sometimes I lean right but most of the time I am in the middle. I have paid a lot of taxes over the years on programs or wars that I did not agree with so, If I paid into it I expect to get it back. However if I was one of the 50% of population who pay NO taxes I would probably not be too proud about Medicare or any other social program.
 

Kenny

Well Known Member
Forum Supporter
#90
Sometimes I lean left and sometimes I lean right but most of the time I am in the middle. I have paid a lot of taxes over the years on programs or wars that I did not agree with so, If I paid into it I expect to get it back. However if I was one of the 50% of population who pay NO taxes I would probably not be too proud about Medicare or any other social program.
Again, it's people seeing things the way they want to see them.
Today, TPC released a new study that examines why these people end up paying no federal income tax.
The number one reason should come as no surprise. It’s because they have low incomes. As my colleague Bob Williams notes:
A couple with two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero. The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.
Low incomes (or, if you prefer, the standard deduction and personal exemptions) account for fully half of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The second reason is that for many senior citizens, Social Security benefits are exempt from federal income taxes. That accounts for about 22% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The third reason is that America uses the tax code to provide benefits to low-income families, particularly those with children. Taken together, the earned income tax credit, the child credit, and the childcare credit account for about 15% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
Taken together, those three factors — incomes that fall below the standard deduction and personal exemptions; the exemption for most Social Security benefits; and tax benefits aimed at low-income families and children — account for almost 90% of the Americans who pay no federal income tax...Why do half of Americans pay no federal income tax? - CSMonitor.com

In case you missed it P.S.: The true fact — about half of Americans do not pay federal income taxes – often gets transmogrified in public discourse into the decidedly untrue claim that half of Americans pay no taxes. That simply isn’t so. There are many other taxes in our fair land, including payroll taxes, excise taxes, sales taxes, state income taxes, and property taxes. Most people who don’t pay federal income taxes still encounter some of these other taxes.

Your a smart guy Gary, don't be a follower of the uninformed and prejudiced that seems to be the norm on this forum, do a little thinking on your own, (do a little research), and don't just go with the flow.
 
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garyd

Well Known Member
#91
Again, it's people seeing things the way they want to see them.
Today, TPC released a new study that examines why these people end up paying no federal income tax.
The number one reason should come as no surprise. It’s because they have low incomes. As my colleague Bob Williams notes:
A couple with two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero. The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.
Low incomes (or, if you prefer, the standard deduction and personal exemptions) account for fully half of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The second reason is that for many senior citizens, Social Security benefits are exempt from federal income taxes. That accounts for about 22% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The third reason is that America uses the tax code to provide benefits to low-income families, particularly those with children. Taken together, the earned income tax credit, the child credit, and the childcare credit account for about 15% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
Taken together, those three factors — incomes that fall below the standard deduction and personal exemptions; the exemption for most Social Security benefits; and tax benefits aimed at low-income families and children — account for almost 90% of the Americans who pay no federal income tax...Why do half of Americans pay no federal income tax? - CSMonitor.com

In case you missed it P.S.: The true fact — about half of Americans do not pay federal income taxes – often gets transmogrified in public discourse into the decidedly untrue claim that half of Americans pay no taxes. That simply isn’t so. There are many other taxes in our fair land, including payroll taxes, excise taxes, sales taxes, state income taxes, and property taxes. Most people who don’t pay federal income taxes still encounter some of these other taxes.

Your a smart guy Gary, don't be a follower of the uninformed and prejudiced that seems to be the norm on this forum, do a little thinking on your own, (do a little research), and don't just go with the flow.
I appreciate your insight. Thanks
 

Kenny

Well Known Member
Forum Supporter
#92
I appreciate your insight. Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to see what the real take is on that number, and why Gary. I'll tell you what, I'd rather be making a $100,000 and paying taxes, than someone who works damn hard for $25,000 and has two kids and is trying to make ends meet with everything going up but his wages; even with no Federal taxes to pay.
 

garyd

Well Known Member
#93
Thanks for taking the time to see what the real take is on that number, and why Gary. I'll tell you what, I'd rather be making a $100,000 and paying taxes, than someone who works damn hard for $25,000 and has two kids and is trying to make ends meet with everything going up but his wages; even with no Federal taxes to pay.
I agree $65K net is better than $25K anyday !!!!
 

Kenny

Well Known Member
Forum Supporter
#94
I agree $65K net is better than $25K anyday !!!!
Of couse but there are a lot of other variables that go into what it takes to make it today with such a low income. People get taken for a ride on many levels when their the working poor. Why do you think places like Aron's are so big? Some people just can't just lay down the money for their simple needs like a washer and dryer, so they pay BIG in the long term "lease" from places like that. If your credit rating is not that hot, you pay more for cars, houses, you name it. There's a long list of the obstacles that are put in people way's to get out of the lower middle class, and the fact that their wages have not kept up with the rise of goods and services in well over 10 years, while the rich paper pushers have been on a steady rise is just one of them.

Damn, I still basically type with one finger, no I do type with one finger, and at times it's hard to keep up. You guy's aught to thank your lucky star's I'm not as fast as some on here..LOL
 

Kenny

Well Known Member
Forum Supporter
#98
Kenny- my point is that the law can not exist to make society liable (or accountable) for the consequences of stupid personal decisions.
And my point was without going into a bunch of long winded bull, and without even saying if I agree or not, (I didn't) is that they have; and it's not a new phenomena that just poped up. Not only can they have laws like that, they do, and have for generations.
 
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