Sonora backs out of 'cooperation' meeting.

[rockyptjoe]

All of you can continue arguing the pros and cons of the bill.....I will be relaxing with a cold margarita on the beach tomorrow.....haven't had a fix in over 2 months.....and can't take it anymore!!!!

 

[rockyptjoe]

Wow, I just now noticed this one.

Have I ever done any physical work out in the Arizona summer sun? Well, yes. The six months I worked as a laborer at San Manuel probably shouldn't count because I was either in the mill or underground in the mine, so no sun was involved. However, the two months I worked as a construction laborer in Tucson got me plenty of sun. But the most rigorous work I ever did for pay was picking up hay bales and stacking them on a moving truck when I was a teenager in Missouri. The Missouri sun isn't so bad, but the humidity is brutal. For the same money, I'd rather have been picking tomatoes or doing landscaping.

Not to take anything away from Mexicans when it comes to physical endurance, but Americans who went West in the 1800s or before, or who went to war during that period, endured hardships comparable to what today's Mexican immigrants endure in their journeys to the North. If our ancestors could do it, so could we - if we needed to.

Could I work two hours in the Arizona sun in July? Yes, and occasionally I do, but at 60 I'd rather not.

Ditto here.....but I'm too cheap to run down to my local Home Depot to hire someone to do my yardwork:stir:....and I'm hitting 61! We all find ways to do what we need to do....

 

[Submarine]

Compared to working as a UPS package driver for 11 years, 12 hours a day all summer long, some of that fieldwork acutally looks a lot easier (especially if they start at sunrise while I had to start at 9 a.m.). Too bad the pay isn't easier.

 

[InkaRoads]

All of you can continue arguing the pros and cons of the bill.....I will be relaxing with a cold margarita on the beach tomorrow.....haven't had a fix in over 2 months.....and can't take it anymore!!!!

Damm!!! I just got the e-mail from my customer and I will not be going this weekend it will be the 5th then!! 5 more days I was ready too!!! 2weeks is two long to wait!!

 

[rockyptjoe]

Compared to working as a UPS package driver for 11 years, 12 hours a day all summer long, some of that fieldwork acutally looks a lot easier (especially if they start at sunrise while I had to start at 9 a.m.). Too bad the pay isn't easier.

Do you have air in those vans....and I'm not talking about open doors!!!

I still remember helping my father-in-law move to Phoenix....drove cross country in his van WITHOUT airconditioning....in July....hit Flagstaff, and then it went downhill.....it was 113 in Phoenix....and my face felt like it was on fire from the "cooling breeze" coming thru the windows as we dropped every 1000 ft.

 

[Submarine]

Nope, no A/C. My last year I drove package, I had a two sensor digital thermometer in the cab and in the cargo compartment. For most of the summer, the cab area would sit at 128 degrees while the cargo area never dropped below 140 degrees. Highest temperature I recorded in the cargo was 159 degrees. So seeing as those guys are on road at 9 am and work until 7-9 pm with only 1/2 hr lunch and 2 fifteen minute breaks, it's a wonder nobody has died yet. Almost every day in the summer several UPS drivers in this State go to the hospital for heat exhaustion. I was actually jealous of construction workers who started at sunup and quit at around 1 p.m. in the summer.

Now I can't complain as I drive a nice comfy tractor-trailer with killer air conditioning that I have on even in December!

But think about the cargo heat before you ship something. Maybe if more customers complained they would do something about it.

 

[garyd]

I have the utmost respect for the UPS drivers, they work very hard and have always been friendly when delivering packages. I never realized how hot it must get driving around, stopping, digging out packages and running up driveways to make a delivery. I have always given them the right of way on the road because I could only assume the pressure they must be under. I figure every little bit helps

 

[cholla]

Cheatka, all of your so-called facts are nothing but regurgitated Michelle Malkin and you (like Ms. Malkin) are wrong about Mexico. If you want to chime in on the side of those in favor of the new law, at least do so without throwing in bogus information that just proves to us all that you parrot whatever you've read most recently.

Rosy, would you please tell me which of the things Cheatka said are wrong. Tryng to seperate the bogus information from the truth here.

John

 

[cholla]

I don't come on this forums often, and when I do, I don't plan on arguing politics. Rocky Pt. is a place for sharing enjoyment of food, fish and ambiance. I can accept that there will be people here whose values and beliefs will conflict with mine. However, I feel it's important that we be honest with ourselves and each other about what's real and what's not, lest we have unnecessary conflicts due to misunderstanding.

We have a border patrol to apprehend illegal entrants in the border zone, but migrants are pretty much home free once they're past the BP's jurisdiction. The number of ICE officers is woefully inadequate to patrol the vast area of the US interior. Meanwhile we have hundreds of thousands of state and local law enforcement officials walking around, many of whom encounter illegal immigrants on a regular basis, but they've been rendered useless due to lack of statutory authority. The Arizona law merely allows them to investigate immigration violations that are fairly obvious.

Here's the current situation before the law goes into effect: Police respond to a disturbance call at a residence and find 40 people in a house that has little or no furniture, it doesn't look like there's a party going on, everyone is silent and looking a bit afraid, and the guy in the corner with his head split open says he doesn't want any medical attention. Officers have a strong suspicion the place is a drop house and that there may be abuse going on, but nobody is talking and no one wants to make a complaint, possibly because of their illegal status. Since state law doesn't empower the officers to investigate these peoples' legal status in the US, they simply leave.

Under the new law, the police can ask for documents and make arrests, effectively ending what is obviously a bad situation needing intervention.

The hysteria about racial profiling and harrassment is overblown. Unlike ICE, most local police won't actively look for immigration violators. They have little incentive to do so and many disincentives, starting with the amount of time involved in arresting and transporting them. Local cops will be expected to give higher priority to violent crimes and crimes against property. I doubt the new law will result in many arrests for illegal presence in the US. However, it could discourage more people from coming here.

The law is very clear that appearance of national origin alone is not sufficient to ask for documentation. Police and prosecutors will know they're under intense scrutiny. The risk of acquittals and civil suits based on racial profiling will discourage the kind of rampant harrassment critics say we can expect.

I cannot understand why anyone would protect the hypocritical and ineffective law enforcement approach we've taking up to now. America sends mixed messages about illegal immigration from or through Mexico, and too many Americans seem satisfied with the gridlock. Any new law or policy that is unequivocal is sure to set off a firestorm.

The current defacto policy of don't ask, don't tell exploitation and peonage is a disgrace. Both major political parties condone it, albeit for different reasons. It's time both parties were confronted with a tool that works. This is flushing the politicos out so we can see what each is made of. We've been hearing protests from the race-baiting Re-Conquistas, poverty pimps, limousine liberals from the left. From the right it's exposing the political schemers like Karl Rove, Jeb Bush, Linda Chavez and Marco Rubio, who fear this will hurt the GOP at the polls and worry more about politics than about governing). It should also expose the business, financial and political interests who want to keep prices low and the standard of living high for the visible Americans who vote.

Arizona's law is merely a referendum on US hypocrisy and gridlock at the federal level. Now somebody else needs to make a move.

I don't buy the myth that our society would collapse if all illegal workers suddenly went home. We've had it pretty good the past few decades, and our houses and waistlines are now much larger than that of generations before us. I can't help believing that somehow we would still eat and have roofs over our heads, though perhaps not in the style to which we've become accustomed as a result of exploiting an imported peonage.

It's often pointed out that we're a nation of immigrants, and many claim that today's immigration is no different from that of America's past. But despite a few spectacular exceptions we hear about, there are many indications that Latin American immigration is not following the same pattern of successful assimilation and upward mobility, possibly because emigres do not have legal status and thus have only one foot in the US and perhaps only for a limited time at that. There's a big difference between a one-way trip across an ocean for legal immigration versus a temporary excursion north leaving the family behind and planning to return. Studies have shown the majority of illegal immigrants would prefer to stay and work in their own country. That mindset is understandable and even laudable, but does not bode well for assimilation.

I could accept a solution that included amnesty for some illegal entrants who truly want to stay, but I could only do so if assured that illegal immigration was being effectively stopped. Effectively stopping illegal immigration will require that penalties for both employers and illegal immigrants be harsh and certain. That guarantees a firestorm from multiple sources, but it's what it will take.

As for Michelle Malikin's discussion of Mexico's own immigration policy, she supported her contentions with several references including government documents. Moreover, her narrative is consistent with what I've read from other sources. If these things aren't really true, Mexicans should make a concerted effort to set the record straight. In the absence of such an effort, people in the US will continue to believe that Mexico is being hypocritical in its expectations of US policy toward immigration.

Wow, very nicely said

 

[cholla]

My firm processes FM3 applications and renewals. I have yet to see anyone be subjected to a medical report as was stated in Cheatka's post. Also, I have personally known of several Americans here who have been deported, some arrested on warrants in the U.S. In those cases, the detainees weren't mistreated at all prior to being handed over to U.S. authorities. In one case, Joe H. has been deported many times and keeps coming back. He is a street-person who has become familiar to me, the mayor and the police in Penasco. A bit of a nut case, and he seems harmless enough but they don't know what to do with him anymore.

The article you cite as backing up Malkin's claim of abuse actually makes it clear that for the most part, it is gangs and bad guys preying on those who are vulnerable as they sneak across Mexico. These aren't governmental abuses. My point isn't that other countries don't have problems, but rather that the U.S. holds itself up as an example, and therefore should act accordingly...meaning humanely.

I understand completely the concept of wanting to protect the borders and know who is getting in. The onus is on the Federal government to do just that. I do believe, however, that once in the country, people should be treated humanely. That they got in at all is a failure of the government and those people should not be treated as criminals unless they exhibit criminal behavior. I appreciated audsley's well-written post and consider it much better than anything written by Ms. Malkin, who I consider to be less than credible.

Following this logic then, if I rob a bank, it is the govts fault for not stopping me. And I should not be treated as a criminal unless I exibit further criminal behavior.