Another dead diver in Cholla Bay

13 august 2011
17-yr old clam diver Roberto Alonso Moroyoqui Lopez lost his life in Puerto Penasco, due to decompression, bringing the tally of recent diving deaths to four. Moroyoqui was a resident of Colonia Nuevo Penasco.
According to sources, the young man suffered severe decompression and neurological damage. His stepfather, Flavio Enrique Encinas Ruelas said that Roberto was working as a clam diver in Cholla Bay. Witnesses said that he was in distress when he surfaced and was immediately transported to the hyperbaric clinic, where he died.
 
This one just hit a little too close to home... this young man was the boyfriend of "Ruby" one of the young girls that helps out at the community center with food distribution... Is it worth the waste of a young life to be able to eat scallops...

I think there should be a boycott on scallops until these gypsy barbarians are run out of town or put in jail where they belong...

trade and I are going to donate money to help the family with their loss... if anyone feels like joining us with a contribution, you can contact me here with a private message...

Thank You...
 
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trade

Guest
I got the call from Ruby late Friday night, these are the calls I dread, We have known and loved these kids for many years. How would you feel if your daughter called you saying her fiance is dead "please fix it, please help"? What do I say? her grief is overwhelming. Young people with nothing but still willing to give of their precious time to help others. This is the real world of the poor, a young man promised riches so he can marry the girl of his dreams by sub humans who don't care if they live or die only that their boats come in with full loads. These kids get no training, the equipment is deadly to them and there is no regulation to stop this! Some times I hate my job!!
 
A few of us had a lively discussion on FB on this matter....Mark (Seadweller) had suggested a scallop boycott.....

What is the solution?
Is it possible to organize the "legal" scallopers to picket the authorities to get the laws enforced against the illegal ones? Or is there a "mob" control of the whole situation?
Can some regulation be done of the equipment renters (hookah) to require some kind of training/certification?
Would creating a small dive table on no decompression dives and provide it to the divers help? There are a couple experienced scuba divers on here that could come up with something simple/useable (the KISS method). Would they even use them?
Can the names/boat registrations of the illegal scallopers be provided to the local newspaper or the authorities? Will this information even be used?
How about publicizing the information about the illegal scalloping and the deaths in the US papers? Will anyone care or will this further hurt the economy of Penasco?
:deadhorse::stir::stir:
 
Harold, I'm sorry that this has hit this close to home for you. It is indeed a sad day when a life so young is lost. I had a meeting this morning with Fausto and he said the boy was the son of the people in charge of the divers, and that this was his first time diving. I brought up many of the concerns and suggestions that I've read on this forum and he suggested they be taken to the dive instructors at the Sonoran Sea, Erica and Daniel. He said that the same concerns were the topic of conversation during a recent breakfast and that those dive instructors would be the appropriate conduit for finding a solution and coordinating same with the authorities as well as the divers.
I just got off the phone after a long talk with Erica. She and Daniel are very knowledgeable on the problem and will be organizing a community meeting. I will keep you informed.
 
No mater how good the training is they are still going to exeed the dive tables at 60 feet, inorder to make a days wages. I really don't know what the solution is unless enough die to make the seriousness sink in. You can probably get dive computers for around $100 but you still have to follow them. So sad because the young kids are not getting the true risks involved.

Rick
Cholla Bay
 

Roberto

Guest
This whole situation is a monsterous travesty but US folk who live here need to keep in mind that you are not to be involved in the politics in Mexico. If you are involved in any protest or are critical of a Mexican Government office you can be deported. If a Mexican denounces you, you will have a problem and may be deported, particularly if you are accused of interfering with his livelyhood. Be careful what you say and what you suggest about people.
 
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az-dan

Guest

So sad but it's not just Mexico and it's not just due to poor equipment. Breathing compressed air (gases) underwater has inherent dangers.

From the TAMPA TRIBUNE
It's easy to see the allure of hookah diving. Unlike scuba, there are no heavy tanks or expensive dive vests to buy or rent, and divers can stay underwater for hours.
There also are no training requirements.
Anyone with access to a hookah rig - the equipment gets its name from the multiple hoses that run from the compressor - can immediately start diving, regardless of whether they have any experience or training on how to deal with the dangers inherent to diving.
Those dangers came to the forefront this month for three Tampa Bay area people who died hunting lobsters in the Keys. Two were using a hookah diving rig, which uses a compressor floating on the surface in an inner tube to pump air through hoses.
Brent Teal of Tampa used a hookah rig since the 1980s on family outings to dive for lobster and never ran into problems.
But his father, a certified diver, taught him the ropes early. He understands how inexperience can lead to trouble and panic in an emergency.
"If you do lobster diving, but don't do any other diving during the year, you can panic," said Teal, 40.
His family took precautions during dives, he said. They always had the boat running in case of trouble and tried to time their dives for slack tide. New divers were paired with more experienced divers.
Anyone diving, whether with a scuba tank or hookah rig, needs to learn about the potential hazards, he said.
"Before you jump into anything that has some danger, you should do some reading. Ninety-nine percent of the time, nothing happens. But if there's a problem, it can be really bad," Teal said.
Little known outside the diving community, the rigs have become increasingly popular, especially during lobster season in the Keys, where the water is relatively shallow and divers can boost their catch the longer they stay submerged.
Experts say the rigs are safe - no more hazardous than scuba gear - but can allow people with little experience or training to dive. One big difference, though, between the hookah rigs and scuba diving is no certification or classes are needed.
Diving with a hookah carries the same risks as scuba diving, such as getting an air embolism or decompression sickness, said Randy Shaw, training manager for the National Association of Underwater Instructors, which certifies scuba divers.
An air embolism happens when a diver rises to the surface without exhaling and air expands in the lungs. It can be fatal, and it doesn't matter if the air came from a scuba tank or hookah rig.
"You don't just throw the inner tube in the water and start diving," Shaw said.
The lack of any requirement for training and certification means inexperienced divers can get into trouble they're not prepared to handle, though companies selling the devices strongly recommend buyers get training.
Capt. Mike Miller, owner of Tanks-A-Lot Dive Charters in Clearwater, started using a hookah rig when they first came out in the 1960s and he was 10 years old. He had no training or certification, but logged hundreds of hours breathing underwater with the rig.
Miller said the lack of training can lead to three problems besides the danger of an embolism.
Untrained divers don't know the proper amount of weight needed to keep them neutrally buoyant. Also, hookah divers may not have a buoyancy device that can keep them afloat on the surface if they get into trouble. The devices are generally part of the harness that holds a scuba tank.
And divers may not know how to clear water from their mask or regulator while submerged. That is covered extensively in scuba classes, Miller said.
Lobster season draws thousands of divers to the Keys, especially in its early days when divers haven't plucked most of the lobsters from the water.
About 10 to 15 divers die each season, Monroe County sheriff's spokeswoman Becky Herrin said.
Louann Greene, 33, of St. Petersburg was diving for lobster a week ago near Big Pine Key with a hookah rig when she ran into trouble. Searchers have not found her.
Brian Harlin, 25, of Brandon was diving for lobster on the first day of the season when he drowned.
Monroe County sheriff's deputies said Harlin was diving in the Indian Key Channel with his family about 8 a.m. Aug. 6. He was in the water with his father. They were using a hookah rig when an air hose dislodged during the dive.
Both men made it to the surface, but as the boat approached to pick them up, Harlin began to struggle in a strong current and slipped underwater. When he was pulled aboard the vessel, relatives tried to revive him, but couldn't.
 
This whole situation is a monsterous travesty but US folk who live here need to keep in mind that you are not to be involved in the politics in Mexico. If you are involved in any protest or are critical of a Mexican Government office you can be deported. If a Mexican denounces you, you will have a problem and may be deported, particularly if you are accused of interfering with his livelyhood. Be careful what you say and what you suggest about people.
This is excellent advice and should be (especially in situations like this one) taken quite seriously.
 

jerry

Guest
A country that makes it illegal to suggest to people they are doing stupid stuff will continue to repeat stupid acts.I sort of think a campaign of satire like the one in the states making fun of meth users might be effective, tied with a local organization that kicks the crap out of outsiders horning in on their territory.
This is excellent advice and should be (especially in situations like this one) taken quite seriously.
 

moore_rb

Stay Thirsty My Friends
If God wanted man going beneath the waves, he would have given us gills....

Of course, that was a joke, but my point is that an ill-prepared trip into the water is fundamentally no different than strapping yourself to a home-made rocket and launching yourself into space. Entering an environment that you are not naturally equipped to survive in can kill you.... These consequences are owned by the individual who decides whether or not to take the risk.

These deaths are sad, and a waste of youth. There is no more immortal (in their own mind) animal on Earth than a 16-23 year old human male.
 

jerry

Guest
I don't know Mr.Moore, a hypothetical 23 year old Texas topless dancer high on blow with a gun in her purse and a semi-monster truck in the parking lot is a person to be shown a certain degree of respect too.... because she will take care of business and damn the consequences
If God wanted man going beneath the waves, he would have given us gills....

Of course, that was a joke, but my point is that an ill-prepared trip into the water is fundamentally no different than strapping yourself to a home-made rocket and launching yourself into space. Entering an environment that you are not naturally equipped to survive in can kill you.... These consequences are owned by the individual who decides whether or not to take the risk.

These deaths are sad, and a waste of youth. There is no more immortal (in their own mind) animal on Earth than a 16-23 year old human male.
 

moore_rb

Stay Thirsty My Friends
I don't know Mr.Moore, a hypothetical 23 year old Texas topless dancer high on blow with a gun in her purse and a semi-monster truck in the parking lot is a person to be shown a certain degree of respect too.... because she will take care of business and damn the consequences
Well, yeah, of course...

But, who would be foolish enough to approach and proposition such a woman? why, a 16-23 year old human male, of course.... :)
 
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STUPIDITY. It has all to do with poverty and available income. Available free training may help, but it will not stop them from staying down to long.
How about some of the divers on the forum offering to provide a little free training.
 

dmcauley

Guest
The offer of training may insult more than help. There is a matter of pride (machismo) invloved. This has been going on for many, many years and help, considered interference , is not on their list of priorities
 

moore_rb

Stay Thirsty My Friends
Agree with Dan. Just look back at what Roberto posted earlier in this thread:

US folk who live here need to keep in mind that you are not to be involved in the politics in Mexico. If you are involved in any protest or are critical of a Mexican Government office you can be deported. If a Mexican denounces you, you will have a problem and may be deported, particularly if you are accused of interfering with his livelyhood. Be careful what you say and what you suggest about people.

This was (in my opinion) one of the most polite, and politically correct ways I have ever seen of saying "Mind your own business, Gringos..." :)

I'm cool with that. It always sucks when people are dying doing something that seems so blatently risky, but sometimes altruism creates more problems than it solves.
 

az-dan

Guest
Three points:
1. How about some of the divers on the forum offering to provide a little free training”. It’s not that simple. Just because we have been trained to dive and understand what can happen to us does not in any way make us qualified to train anyone. There are qualified local instructors that have offered to help train those that understand that they need training and are working on getting the word out. I am more than willing to provide the USN Dive tables to anyone who wants them either as a copy or PDF file just “PM” me.
2. I believe that if they really understood the risk of deth death by breathing compressed air at depth and going beyond acceptable limits some would use more caution. The physics of what happens to your body while under water is not easily understood and something you can’t really see. It’s just air and it breaths the same so as long as you’re getting it what’s the problem? Many deaths are probably perceived as drowning accidents. Until they really understand the risk they will not value the training or the education. How about erecting a big sign where the boats go out explaining that diving on compressed air without training can kill you?
3. "Mind your own business, Gringos..." That may be the sentiment of some people but those who have lost love ones and the ones that will benefit in the future may not have the same opinion.
 
Poverty makes a man do things he wouldnt do otherwise, I would say that 99 percent of us dont really know the kind of poverty these people edure
 
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