rockyptjoe
Guest
The one thing I know about them is NOT to have an accident with one!!! The police claimed there was no way to track the owner of the vehicle (hit and run...but had the license plate number).
Border crossing at 21 mile checkpoint
- Thread starter asprinkles
- Start date
PitiquitoRosy
Guest
Whenever I've asked anyone about the CONDEFA plates, I get sketchy answers. Kinda like when I ask what "Hassle free zone" means. I ask my husband and he says, "Those are all the people who will someday lose their cars!" One day soon I'll get off my rear end and go over there to get a real answer for you. Oh, alright...maybe manana.
rockyptjoe
Guest
Definitely NOT "official", but a local told me that the plate allows the locals to drive their vehicle in town until they could get them fixed, registered, insured....don't know the mileage limitation....definitely not insured. There used to be an office in the same plaza as Cosmos2000 Pharmacy...that was the(???) C.O.N.D.E.F.A. office...don't recall if it is still there.
(on Benito Juarez by the RR track crossing...near Rosy's office and Tequila Factory). The way it was explained to me, it was some politician who was given (??) the authority to issue the plates.....was also told that he was supposed to stop doing it...but you see new ones all the time (paper....not worn/faded yet).
A friend had a hit and run accident with one a few years ago...someone got the license number...when we went to the police station, they said they couldn't do anything and couldn't identify the vehicle owner....she was able to get a police report so she could deal with her Mexican insurance.
All I know is that I steer very clear of any with that plate when I'm in town!
(on Benito Juarez by the RR track crossing...near Rosy's office and Tequila Factory). The way it was explained to me, it was some politician who was given (??) the authority to issue the plates.....was also told that he was supposed to stop doing it...but you see new ones all the time (paper....not worn/faded yet).
A friend had a hit and run accident with one a few years ago...someone got the license number...when we went to the police station, they said they couldn't do anything and couldn't identify the vehicle owner....she was able to get a police report so she could deal with her Mexican insurance.
All I know is that I steer very clear of any with that plate when I'm in town!
Smilin' Jack
Guest
Locals have told me that the police don't even bother to ticket drivers of vehicles with CONDEFA "plates" for traffic violations.
Smilin' Jack
Guest
Quoted from Rosie's recent post, with emphasis added:
"I have been told that if the Mexican citizen can prove he/she lives in the U.S. and shows a valid U.S. driver's license and valid Immigration documents showing legal residence in the States along with the OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE, it would suffice."
I would not trust "word of mouth" in regard to this issue, especially in what constitutes "owner's authorization" to drive the vehicle. A "notorized" letter of authorization may work in town with the local police, but it may not work with Hacienda. In the case I cited, the owner of the vehicle made two unsuccessful trips to Hacienda in Hermosillo trying to recover his vehicle. His personal testimony that his girlfriend had his permission to drive his vehicle in Mexico did not change the status of his confiscated car. He faced a fine of $9000 for his $3000 valued car, and paying the fine was no guarantee that he would recover his car. Unless someone has other legal info, it appears that the only safe, and legal way for a Mexican to drive a non-Mexican registered vehicle in Mexico, is to add the Mexican driver to the title of the vehicle.
"I have been told that if the Mexican citizen can prove he/she lives in the U.S. and shows a valid U.S. driver's license and valid Immigration documents showing legal residence in the States along with the OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE, it would suffice."
I would not trust "word of mouth" in regard to this issue, especially in what constitutes "owner's authorization" to drive the vehicle. A "notorized" letter of authorization may work in town with the local police, but it may not work with Hacienda. In the case I cited, the owner of the vehicle made two unsuccessful trips to Hacienda in Hermosillo trying to recover his vehicle. His personal testimony that his girlfriend had his permission to drive his vehicle in Mexico did not change the status of his confiscated car. He faced a fine of $9000 for his $3000 valued car, and paying the fine was no guarantee that he would recover his car. Unless someone has other legal info, it appears that the only safe, and legal way for a Mexican to drive a non-Mexican registered vehicle in Mexico, is to add the Mexican driver to the title of the vehicle.
Smilin' Jack
Guest
It is my understanding that there are several organzations involved in "legalizing" vehicles of unknown origin in Mexico, of which CONDEFA is one. At least one organization is identified with a political candidate, who uses the organization to gain popular support. If it is supposed to be a temporary status, but, in reality, it seems to be an open-ended means to operate an undocumented vehicle locally. Since there seems to be considerable interest in this vehicle status, it would be great if Rosie, or some other knowlegable person would post the operational legalities of these organizations.
PitiquitoRosy
Guest
I should clarify that I was told by the Aduana employee who detained the Mexican employee who went to Lukeville in an American registered pickup. He said that if the guy could prove he had legal residence in the US and was authorized to drive the truck, he would not have been detained and the car impounded.
I agree with you, Jack that it's risky, however putting the Mexican person on the title isn't the answer by itself, as that person would still have to answer for being caught driving an un-imported vehicle. The vehicle still gets confiscated and the person still gets fined.
PitiquitoRosy
Guest
I'll send someone over to CONDEFA today and try to get some answers on this.
az-dan
Guest
What has to be done to legally transfer ownership of an AZ titled car to a Mexican citizen? And what would be the cost? Car value $750.00 - $1,000.0 US. I wanted to assist someone in getting better transportation but my concern is that the title would need to be transferred to them.
playaperro
El Pirata
It would be less expensive to buy a used sonora plated auto, last time I informed about importing a car the fee's were around $750.00 who knows what they want now. Also if you give them your old car you know you are giving them something reliable.You would have to sign to title over to them and they would pay the import fee's at the border when they or whoever crosses
the auto..
the auto..
Roberto
Guest
The issue is the nationality of the person driving/owning and the ownership/nationality of the vehicle registration/title. Mex - Mex is OK. Mex - US is OK when the registered owner is in the vehicle only unless they have the same last name as on the registration. Don't know about US - Mex. I never got stopped. I do know that if you get the new "Immigrado" permanent residency (above the old FM2) status you cannot drive a US licensed and titled vehicle outside of the free zone !! You have to import your vehicle to do so. That info directly from the local director of the immigration office.
To get a car registered in Mexico it must be 'imported'. There are two levels of importation. National meaning the vehicle is good to go anywhere in Mexico at anytime. Fronteria meaning the car can be driven at any time in the free zone only. The Fronteria imported vehicle can be driven outside of the free zone for only a specified number of days per year. You must obtain a permit, each trip, to drive a Fronteria car outside of the free zone and that process also documents the number of days of each trip and the total number of days a year. You get the permit the day you want to leave and have to return the permit with the vehicle for inspection when you return. So if you live in Hermosillo, you cannot own and keep a Fronteria vehicle there. If you live in Penasco you can own a Fronteria vehicle and drive to Hermosillo in it after obtaining the required permit. Not sure where the office to get the permit is now. It was in Penasco then moved to Caborca. One late trip returning from Kino the office in Caborca was closed and we had to drive back down the next day to return the permit and check the van in !!
There are restrictions also on the age of vehicles eligible for either type of importation and those restrictions are different by type of importation. Those laws have been changing and I have not kept up but I recall that as part of the NAFTA business the restrictions on vehicle importation were to be loosened up quite a bit over a period of 10 years or so.
A friend recently imported a vehicle. Cost several thousand dollars and he had to have it trailered to Mexicali since there was no legal plate on it and it could not legally be driven on the highways. The law permits an individual to import without a broker, but it is difficult and they usually charge a couple of hundred.
Several friends have done what you are thinking about. They simply gave the vehicle to the person, along with the US title (keeping a signed copy), showing signed over to the local and also got a bill of sale or reciept all to recuce any liability. The locals will have to deal with the problem then, a CONDEFA plate, no plate at all or import.
Lagrimis, Rosy, did I get that mostly right??
To get a car registered in Mexico it must be 'imported'. There are two levels of importation. National meaning the vehicle is good to go anywhere in Mexico at anytime. Fronteria meaning the car can be driven at any time in the free zone only. The Fronteria imported vehicle can be driven outside of the free zone for only a specified number of days per year. You must obtain a permit, each trip, to drive a Fronteria car outside of the free zone and that process also documents the number of days of each trip and the total number of days a year. You get the permit the day you want to leave and have to return the permit with the vehicle for inspection when you return. So if you live in Hermosillo, you cannot own and keep a Fronteria vehicle there. If you live in Penasco you can own a Fronteria vehicle and drive to Hermosillo in it after obtaining the required permit. Not sure where the office to get the permit is now. It was in Penasco then moved to Caborca. One late trip returning from Kino the office in Caborca was closed and we had to drive back down the next day to return the permit and check the van in !!
There are restrictions also on the age of vehicles eligible for either type of importation and those restrictions are different by type of importation. Those laws have been changing and I have not kept up but I recall that as part of the NAFTA business the restrictions on vehicle importation were to be loosened up quite a bit over a period of 10 years or so.
A friend recently imported a vehicle. Cost several thousand dollars and he had to have it trailered to Mexicali since there was no legal plate on it and it could not legally be driven on the highways. The law permits an individual to import without a broker, but it is difficult and they usually charge a couple of hundred.
Several friends have done what you are thinking about. They simply gave the vehicle to the person, along with the US title (keeping a signed copy), showing signed over to the local and also got a bill of sale or reciept all to recuce any liability. The locals will have to deal with the problem then, a CONDEFA plate, no plate at all or import.
Lagrimis, Rosy, did I get that mostly right??
lagrimas85
AKA Carnac
That was pretty good, Roberto.
PitiquitoRosy
Guest
Good job, Roberto~
Current auto importation laws state that a car must be at least 7 years old to be legally imported. I just bought a 2004 Envoy with Mexican (as opposed to Fronterizo) plates. In 2011, that was the newest year possible to import. The guy who sold it to me paid $1,400 for the importation and broker. National plates make a car worth more here in Mexico (think resale). For me, Mexican plates are the best option.
In an earlier post I told you guys about an American couple who gave a car to a Mexican family with the intention of helping them out. That turned out to be a nightmare for everyone involved. The American owner went to DMV and got the title out of his name in the States and then gave it to his friend. The friend didn't pay to legally import it, so he got pinched, lost the car, had to pay fines and an attorney to keep out of jail. The car couldn't be retrieved because it legally belonged to nobody, as the DMV had already taken the first owner's name off it. The American could've probably gotten it back, but only after paying fines and impound fees and coming down to give statements, etc. He decided the little car wasn't worth the hassle. My advice is to not give anyone a car unless you can afford to also import it for them.
Now, CONDEFA plates. CONDEFA is just one of countless so-called civic organizations set up for the purposes of giving low-income people a way to drive a vehicle around their town without yet having completed the importation process. There's much controversy because while initially meant to be a temporary solution, allowing drivers to work and save money for the importation, most have not complied and they simply keep driving with those plates. If caught on the highway, all bets are off, though. In many states, government is negotiating with the CONDEFA-like organizations and someday the free ride might come to an abrupt end.
rockyptjoe
Guest
Rosy...were you able to find out if the CONDEFA organization that issued the plate is able to identify who the owner of the vehicle is?...for example in the case of an accident? Do the owners have to carry insurance? In essence...is there any kind of control of those vehicles????
BTW i like your term "so called civic organizations"....I'm restraining myself from using a smiley!
BTW i like your term "so called civic organizations"....I'm restraining myself from using a smiley!
playaperro
El Pirata
Most cars brought into mexico from the good usa have fresh paint and low miles is because they have salvage titles. They are worth half their value. Once they are
here in mexico they have a real nice clean imported title. Why do you think they would pay over $1000.00 to import it when they sell the same auto in mexico already
here with national plates. The vin # might tell whether it had a salvage title in some cases. Remember carfax.
here in mexico they have a real nice clean imported title. Why do you think they would pay over $1000.00 to import it when they sell the same auto in mexico already
here with national plates. The vin # might tell whether it had a salvage title in some cases. Remember carfax.
Cactus Jack
Guest
Sorry, Rosy, I disagree. Aduana and Hacienda have nothing to do with each other. It is illegal for anyone to drive an "un-imported" vehicle in Mexico, whether foreign or Mexican national. Tourists are not in violation of Mexican law for driving their foreign registered (un-imported) vehicles in Mexico, that they have title to. A Mexican citizen, having permanent resident status in the US, can own and operate a motor vehicle in Az, the same as a US citizen. This same individual can legally drive their foreign registered vehicle in Mexico the same as any other tourist. In Mexico, this individual is considered a Mexican citizen, regardless of their status in the US, and must be on the title of a foreign registered vehicle that they drive in Mexico. My wife is a Mexican citizen, is on the title of our vehicles that she drives in Mexico, in accordance with Mexican law.
The Mexican law is intended to apprehend those who sell stolen vehicles in Mexico. Obviously, it is abused, and used as a means by Hacienda to steal vehicles from individuals strictly on a technicality.
Cactus Jack
Guest
The posts of the latter part of this thread were focused on the subject of the legality of Mexican nationals driving foreign registered vehicles in Mexico, not the nationalization of foreign vehicles in Mexico, a totally different subject, and a rather complicated process.
A question about CONDEFA plated vehicles was raised and addressed by two posters. To add to what has been posted, their are virtually no requirements or restrictions imposed on those owning or operating such vehicles. There has been some Mexican federal government opposition to the existence of these "civic" organizations, but they still exist, and there seems to be even more of them.
A question about CONDEFA plated vehicles was raised and addressed by two posters. To add to what has been posted, their are virtually no requirements or restrictions imposed on those owning or operating such vehicles. There has been some Mexican federal government opposition to the existence of these "civic" organizations, but they still exist, and there seems to be even more of them.
PitiquitoRosy
Guest
The Aduana is Customs. All importations (vehicles or otherwise) are overseen by Hacienda. In my mind, the two are linked. Other than that, I fail to see what we're disagreeing on. Mexicans are considered Mexicans in Mexico, regardless of how the US sees them? Check. All cars that aren't in Mexico for touristic purposes must be imported? Check. I'm being told the Mexican doesn't have to be on the title to the US vehicle he/she is driving so long as they can show proof of legal US residence and authorization to drive the car. On the other hand, if I were that Mexican, I wouldn't risk it...so...check.
The Mexican Consulate website says that for temporary importation of vehicles from the US, Mexican citizens will need to show proof of legal status in the States. They will also have to prove their relationship to the owner or show a rental contract. It doesn't say that the Mexican must own the car.