Rancher killed near Douglas in Eastern Arizona

jerry

Guest
You have to live down here to realize what a big deal this is.This guy was a big rancher and really connected politically.This could bring the guard back to the border.it does make you think about shooting someone that comes up to your ranch in the middle of the night.
Cochise County Rancher Murdered Cochise County rancher Rob Krentz was shot and killed on his ranch some time Saturday, presumably by a drug smuggler. The death, which being investigated as a homicide, occurred in the San Bernardino Valley, part of the Malpais region. The event has rocked the towns of Douglas and Portal, and the ranches in between, both of which have been under siege by cross-border smugglers for years.
 

Mentiras y Traición

Sonoran Goddess
Does Arizona have the "make my day" law? Some states have different names for it...basically if someone comes in your home or on your property and you think they intend to hurt you, you can shoot to kill them?
 

Kenny

Guest
Arizona Self Defense Laws

"I don't even call it violence when it's in self defense; I call it intelligence."
- Malcolm X
http://www.ehow.com/about_4683313_gun-self-defense-rights-arizona.html
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d030.htm

"Arizona has always cherished the right to bear and use arms as needed. An Arizona saying about gun use was "Don't kill no one that don't need killing." Men walked the streets with hogleg pistols visible on their hips and rifles under the wagon seat. Even saloon girls had a Derringer in their garter, just in case. Today, it is not unusual to see pistols, rifles and even semi-automatic weapons on dashboards or rifle racks of trucks passing you on the street."
 
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Our family friend is a large ranch owner down by Douglas who has dealt with illegals coming on his property for decades, cutting fences, killing cattle etc. Last year he had to defend himself on a 32
million dollar lawsuit. He was charged with assault and violating their civil rights. He held them until the border patrol could pick them up. They were trespassing and illegal. What civil rights?

He kicked one over with his foot and was charged with assault. I am sure you all have seen his story. I am glad he didn't get killed.

I own in RP and love it and feel okay going down. It is important to be aware of other areas and what is going on. It is not the same.
 
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dmcauley

Guest
Maybe they should take some agents from non-violent areas, such as Lukeville, and concentrate them where they are needed.
Drug runners and undocumented are two different areas of concern but the ranchers can't tell the difference and they shouldn't have to worry about protecting their property. This is what we pay Border Patrol to do.
 

garyd

Guest
Arizona Castle Doctrine explained - In plain English


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May 14, 2008 - 3:13 PM

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense."
- John Adams

From her beginning territorial days up until 1997, a person in Arizona was innocent unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Then in 1997, through a quiet and political trick, prosecutors had the law changed in their favor so that people involved in self defense had to admit guilt before proving their own innocence by "justification," which resulted in a complex and extremely expensive legal process for the innocent.

It was a return to the Napoleonic Code, with a relatively small group of prosecutors sneaking this through our legislature without any form of public debate. It was a citizen's worst nightmare and a prosecutor's wet dream. Many of your fellow Arizonans suffered under this law, as it now made it extremely simple for prosecutors to reach a conviction.

The adaptation of the Arizona Castle Doctrine (Senate Bill 1145) reversed the laws back to be in favor of individual citizens, not prosecutors. The Castle Doctrine has 5 main points:

(1) Previously, "justification" defenses, including self-defense, were affirmative defenses. The defendant (or self-defender) had to prove them by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., proof of "more likely true than not). Under SB 1145, if the defense presents "evidence" (quantum undefined) of justification, the prosecution must disprove justification to a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. This change is not limited to defense of home or car, but applies anywhere.

(2) No duty to retreat before using force to prevent certain serious offenses, including aggravated assault. Again, this applies anywhere, any place a person has a legal right to be, in the language of the law.

(3) A person is presumed to be justified in using force or deadly force if he/she reasonably believes they or another person are in imminent peril and the attacker has entered or is trying to enter a residence or occupied auto. Once again, there is no duty to retreat.

(4) A person is generally presumed to be justified in use of force if the attacker has unlawfully forced his way into residence or car or is trying to do so (with certain exceptions, such as if the person forcing in had a legal right to be in there). This means that justification is automatically presumed when a person uses physical or deadly force against an intruder. It is now the prosecutor’s job to prove there was no justification, which once again falls within our legal system’s concept of innocent until proven guilty.

(5) If the aggressor is foolish enough to sue, and the defender wins, the defender recovers attorney fees and lost income (presumably, lost while at the courthouse). This not limited to the home invasion situation.

Why is the Castle Doctrine necessary?

The Castle Doctrine comes from the idea that "A man's home is his castle", as stated in English Common Law. It establishes that an individual has an undeniable right to use any type of physical force against an attacker or intruder.

The Castle Doctrine established redundancy is to further defend the corresponding law and its original intent. Most importantly, it stops self-important fools like the 9th Circuit Court and biased judges from trying to legislate from the bench.
 

garyd

Guest
I LIKE THIS PART THE MOST Most importantly, it stops self-important fools like the 9th Circuit Court and biased judges from trying to legislate from the bench.
 

Mentiras y Traición

Sonoran Goddess
It's better than having to try to determine if they "mean" to hurt you. Can you imagine if they had to wait til the knife was halfway in, or there was "proof" the trigger was pulled...
 

jerry

Guest
I've gone down to my barn in the middle of the night and found people getting out of the cold and rain.I've helped people with sprained ankles get down from the mountains behind the house and I've given food to guys waiting to be picked up but lately there has been a new more hard edged type around.My guess is if you lose a load you die. Wait time for law enforcement is up to 2 hours and they are pretty worthless when they do show up. I think legalizing dope and building Mexico's economy are the only long term answers.In the meantime we are in a bit of a pinch unless Gov. Brewer sends in the guard.
 

InkaRoads

cronopiador
I agree with deadly force used when needed, I did everything by the law to become a naturalized citizen of this country and I am proud of it as well as proud of the country that gave me birth, one can never forget the grounds one has grown no matter what!!
I also agree that undocumented or illegals do take advantage of the system and it cost me as well as you money that we work hard for, but at the same time I do realized that many of them just want a better life and are good people, those are the ones that deserve to be given a second chance, unfortunately many of them do use the wrong way to arrive here and it makes them be part of the problem!!
I feel sorry for the ranchers along the border because thay fight with it all day long.
 

playaperro

El Pirata
Posted by Sonoran Alliance under Border , Crime and Punishment , Illegal Aliens , Illegal Immigration
No Comments
This is a reprint from the DiggersRealm.com.
Our prayers and thoughts go out to Bob’s family.
<IMG style="BORDER-BOTTOM: black 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 1px solid; MARGIN: 7px; BORDER-TOP: black 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: black 1px solid" title="Bob Krentz" alt="Bob Krentz" align=left width=300 height=200>The body of Rancher Rob Krentz and his dog were found shot to death on his ranch. Krentz, who always was good-natured and willing to help people, had called in that he had found an illegal alien at one of his watering holes and was assisting him. That was the last that was heard from him before his body was discovered.
Rob Krentz was a lifelong rancher in Southeastern Arizona, 12 miles north of the U.S./Mexico border and 25 miles northeast of the city of Douglas. He was the father of three children. The ranch has been in his family for three generations, more than 100 years – since 1907, and sits on about 35,000 acres with 1,000 head of cattle. Running a ranch is hard work and with the influx of illegal aliens increasing, Rob was at ground zero of the stampede that is destroying the fragile desert landscape.
The Krentz family has received numerous threats in the past by illegal aliens trespassing on their property. In 2002, the family was physically threatened when one of them stumbled upon a group of 39 illegal aliens. They were told to get off the land and they made threats. The Border Patrol did catch the illegal aliens after they were called, but we all know that illegal aliens, if deported, come right back across.
In 1999, Krentz and his wife Susan did an interview with PBS when they came around asking about the issue of illegal immigration and its impacts on the local ranchers.
“We’ve been broken into,” Susan Krentz told PBS.
Rob and Susan Krentz
“One time,” Rob said “You know, we’ve personally been broke in once. And they took about $700 worth of stuff. And you know, if they come in and ask for water, I’ll still give them water. I – you know, that’s just my nature.”
In 2003, Congressman Tom Tancredo mentioned the challenges of the border ranchers, and in particular highlighted the the Krentz family’s plight.
“In the month of November, 2002, in the Tucson Sector of the U.S. Border Patrol … where the Krentz ranch is located, the Border Patrol apprehended 23,000 border crossers,” Tancredo wrote. “many people would suggest that the [apprehension] ratio is just about maybe one in five, and that is a very conservative estimate. … I think it is closer to one in ten”.
That means in that sector alone for one month, 8 years ago, the most conservative estimate is that 115,000 illegal aliens crossed the border in that one chunk of land in the Tucson sector. All of the illegals are unknown.
Tancredo notes that the Krentz’s did mention to him that they called the Border Patrol. In one instance illegal aliens had butchered one of his calves.
In February [2002] … a calf was butchered by illegal alien trespassers. Two men responsible were caught. They were tried. They were found guilty. They served a total of 51 days in jail. They were also ordered to pay $200 in restitution to the Krentz ranch. The Krentz ranch has not seen a cent of that money; and, of course, our best guess is they will not because these people have been released. They either came back into the population up here in the U.S.A. or returned to Mexico.
Tancredo goes into the cases of deliberate sabotage of the Krentz ranch’s water supply and the other impacts on the Krentz’s by illegal aliens. You can read more, where Tancredo dubs the Krentzs American Homeland Heroes
6 years after the PBS interview, in 2005, Krentz did an interview with KOLD as the number of illegal aliens exploded.
“We’re being over-run, and it’s costing us lots and lots of money,” Krentz said.
“We figured it up over the last five years and it’s cost us over $8 million,” Krentz said. “Cattle don’t like people walking through, so they move. So, cattle weight loss, destruction of fences, breaking our pipelines, they break them in two and (the pipes) run for two or three days before we find it.”
Krentz went on to say that when he was a boy he actually knew the few illegal aliens that came through looking for work, he said it’s nothing like that now as hundreds of unknown illegals stream across his land.
Rob Krentz is just one of the many people who live and work along our southern border. A tough, hard working man who was trying to make a living and doing what he loved. Those who support illegal aliens will talk about “human rights”, but where were the “human rights” when it came to Rob Krentz? Where was the government to protect our border and prevent this from happening, though they’ve been told time and time again? They didn’t protect his property rights, nor his civil rights.
This country failed Robert Krentz, his family and all who work for him. As they have failed countless families all across this country. The number of deaths is estimated to be from 15-25 deaths caused by illegal aliens each day in this country.
It is not known yet whether Krentz was specifically targeted or whether it was just one of the hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens who come across our border every year who have actual criminal records, but in the end does it matter? A hard working man was killed on his own land. And all for just trying to help out someone in need.
And that is simply outrageous.
Rest in peace Robert Krentz, the country will surely miss a great and kind man like you.
 

Stuart

Aye carumba!!!
Staff member
It's a shame that a man who strongly believed in helping others had his life taken. While I agree everyone has the right to defend themselves, their family, their homes and property by deadly force if necessary, my biggest fear is that this incident will cause an "open season" on illegal immigrants all along the Arizona border. People will now be more inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. There will be more bloodshed.
 

joester

2 salty dawgs
our condolences to Rob Krentz's family and friends - this is not how it should end for any of us.
By all accounts, this man had spent his life taking care of his family and being a good steward of his ranch.
this just plain sucks - it needs to stop.
RIP Rob Krentz.
 

garyd

Guest
I agree this sucks. Sorry to say this Stuart but if had shot first he may still be here to ask questions. Hidsight is always 20/20. Maybe asking questions later is what is called for in these times
 
S

Submarine

Guest
I've gone down to my barn in the middle of the night and found people getting out of the cold and rain.I've helped people with sprained ankles get down from the mountains behind the house and I've given food to guys waiting to be picked up but lately there has been a new more hard edged type around.My guess is if you lose a load you die. Wait time for law enforcement is up to 2 hours and they are pretty worthless when they do show up. I think legalizing dope and building Mexico's economy are the only long term answers.In the meantime we are in a bit of a pinch unless Gov. Brewer sends in the guard.
Too late Jerry, they sent the AZNG to Afghanistan today.

Look at the bright side, if the ranchers declare open season maybe the illegals will try the Lukeville route. On the east side of 85 you've got deadly terrain and no water. On the west side is a free-fire zone for the military. Hmmm. Well I guess there isn't a bright side.
 

jerry

Guest
Meanwhile in safe Tucson:
Two people were killed and a 3-year-old child suffered life-threatening injuries following a home invasion on the southwest side Monday night.
The Pima County Sheriff's Department was called to the 7800 block of West Spiney Lizard Lane, near South San Joaquin Road and West Bopp Road, just after 11:30 p.m. Monday after getting calls of a shooting, department spokesman Jason Ogan said.
Deputies found a home that had signs of forced entry, and inside they found a man and a woman dead, Ogan said.
A 3-year-old child was found critically injured and was transported to a local hospital, while a 10-year-old child was found unharmed, he said.
Investigators were expected to be working the scene overnight to determine what happened.
 
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