Cartel Shootout - Sounds like it was Southwest of Nogales

Kenny

Guest
In this case (although I don't quite see your analogy)....I would wait till they shot each up, and then mop up afterwards. Actually, I would encourage (or facilitate) more gunfights like this one.....send misinformation to both camps so that they show up at the same location.....and let the fireworks begin!!! Then bring in a couple of helicopter gunships to mop up....they are brutal killers and should be treated that way!
That's not the way things are supposed to be done in a "civilized county" Joe. When A.Z. and N.M. were trying to become states (1914?) they were told to clean up their lawlessness, or they weren't going to let them in; but of course politics played a big part as well. Letting things just go as far as the Narco's are willing to go is not only wrong, it's putting the whole state of Sonora in jeopardy. OK, in A.Z's case they had the "26 men" who had the bible in one hand, and a gun in the other. Those boy's shot first and often (killed a lot of men) but they did have one thing that backed up their killings, a badge.

"In the early 1880s, Arizona was not only having an Indian war, but border crimes and killings were making Arizona unfit to live in."
 

Stuart

Aye carumba!!!
Staff member
Those boy's shot first and often (killed a lot of men) but they did have one thing that backed up their killings, a badge.
The cartel don't need no steenkin' badges!!

We'll see what happens, I suppose. Watching the local news last night, I predict it's only a short matter of time until we have a full-fledged fire fight on our side of the border. The Cochise Militia is getting in on the act; the Minutemen were patrolling south of I-8 in the Vekol area last weekend --- all of these groups armed to the teeth. One of these groups runs into an armed cartel group, you can bet the bullets will fly first and questions will be asked later. So, in essence, what you said is just a case of history repeating itself.
 
Sounds like the Cochise Militia and the Minutemen are hoping to get in the fray. if they meet up with the drug cartels, they will be in way, way over their head. But I suspect that the people they will direct their antagonism against will be poor Mexicans risking their lives by crossing in a dangerous area to find family members or jobs in the U.S. I am certainly praying for the latter. As Che said, when the revolution comes, I know what side I will be on, the poor of the earth.
 

Stuart

Aye carumba!!!
Staff member
As Che said, when the revolution comes, I know what side I will be on, the poor of the earth.
To hell with Che... when the Revolution comes, I want to be on the side that's got the best weapons, the most bullets and isn't handcuffed by some unrealistic "Rules of Engagement" nonsense!!! :clown:

Right now, that doesn't seem to be the good guys, does it? So sad...
 
That's not the way things are supposed to be done in a "civilized county" Joe. When A.Z. and N.M. were trying to become states (1914?) they were told to clean up their lawlessness, or they weren't going to let them in; but of course politics played a big part as well. Letting things just go as far as the Narco's are willing to go is not only wrong, it's putting the whole state of Sonora in jeopardy. OK, in A.Z's case they had the "26 men" who had the bible in one hand, and a gun in the other. Those boy's shot first and often (killed a lot of men) but they did have one thing that backed up their killings, a badge.
Kenny...since when is any warfare "civilized"? When you're dealing with the cartels, you're dealing with animals....not human beings....at least not my definition of a human being!

I agree with Stuarts statement...if I'm going to get into a fight...I'm going to make sure I come with the biggest/best weapon!
 
Sounds like the Cochise Militia and the Minutemen are hoping to get in the fray. if they meet up with the drug cartels, they will be in way, way over their head. But I suspect that the people they will direct their antagonism against will be poor Mexicans risking their lives by crossing in a dangerous area to find family members or jobs in the U.S. I am certainly praying for the latter. As Che said, when the revolution comes, I know what side I will be on, the poor of the earth.
What may also happen if one of the "bad guys" gets shot by one of the militia, is that ACLU and Mexican government will pressure a lawsuit against him, like the rancher who was sued not too long ago.....
 

jerry

Guest
The Cochise Militia is a joke...60 year old guys looking for headlines....i live on the major human trafficking route in Cochise County and I'd say the traffic is down 80 percent from 3 years ago because the jobs no longer exist.....no foot prints period this morning..Way more BP around....
 

Stuart

Aye carumba!!!
Staff member
The Cochise Militia is a joke...60 year old guys looking for headlines....i live on the major human trafficking route in Cochise County and I'd say the traffic is down 80 percent from 3 years ago because the jobs no longer exist.....no foot prints period this morning..Way more BP around....
I didn't say anything about their ability or cause, Jerry. Only that if you go looking for trouble, you're often apt to find it.
 

Roberto

Guest
Advocating ignoring or encouraging this type of violence ignores the fact that little settlements, like Tubutama are populated by men, women and children of families that probably have settled and farmed there for a couple of hundred years. Check it out on Google maps. These people are probably being terrorized as we sit at out keyboards offering sage advice.

I'd love to hear your advice if this type of thing was happening in your community or where you have family. My take on it is that it is in Mexico so it's OK to encouarge brutality and lawlessness. Let THEM shoot it out. I'll watch and we can talk about it, it's exciting !!

Lagrimis, you know the rest of the story.
 

audsley

Guest
The presence of non-combatants was a factor that was not presented until now, or at least I hadn't seen it. It was my understanding that this took place outside a community, not in one. Thus there is no legitimate basis to suggest indifference on my part regarding the general public's safety in a Mexican community.

Yes, violence begats violence for a while, but eventually it begats peace, often after a major conflict where both sides get hurt. Wars like these never go on forever. Eventually both leaders and participants tire of it, realize they're getting nowhere and take stock of their losses. If the Mexican government can't stop the fighting - and I don't think it can right now - the best course left is to let the narcos wear each other down to the point they're ready for a truce. Desertions often follow major engagements. This war will likely leave the narcos much weaker than they were before. I've noticed the Mexican army and navy have been saving their troops, as they did the other day, while the Sinaloans, Leytas and the other challengers have been expending theirs. Maybe the government troops will eventually become the dominant force just by keeping their powder dry and waiting for a battered, war-weary narco leader to make a mistake.

This isn't an ideal solution, and I wouldn't recommend it for Connecticut, but Mexico isn't Connecticut. If it was, I'd recommend serving summonses on all the narcos, having them appear before a grand jury, issue indictments, make them post bond to keep out of jail, let them remain free until their trials, then set them free again after the verdicts and expect them to show up for sentencing, which would include a stretch in prison with a rehab program that includes awareness training stressing the effects of violence on victims and their families and some courses in conflict management. But I'm not sure all that would work real well in Mexico right now.

Actually, I always thought recognizing and accepting that some cultures are different from mine and accepting that this isn't necessarily a bad, was a sign that I'm enlightened and all that. Seems a guy can't win when the political correctness police feel like going on a tear.
 

InkaRoads

cronopiador
.......Actually, I always thought recognizing and accepting that some cultures are different from mine and accepting that this isn't necessarily a bad, was a sign that I'm enlightened and all that.....
audsley, I like your whole post, but the best part is what I quoted above, I wish many more people will realise that eventhough we are all humans does not mean we are all the same when it comes to customs, habits and culture, even among similar countries there are huge differences, as and example USA and UK, just to name 2!! :eek3:
 

mis2810

Guest
audsley, I like your whole post, but the best part is what I quoted above, I wish many more people will realise that eventhough we are all humans does not mean we are all the same when it comes to customs, habits and culture, even among similar countries there are huge differences, as and example USA and UK, just to name 2!! :eek3:
That's the problem with the American ideology - we contradict ourselves constantly. We love our freedom, but we think we're a better society than any other on the planet. So, instead of respecting other societies for their choices, we try to force our ideology on them. Major superiority complex goin' on in this country.
 

jerry

Guest
This is how we end the drug war and save our ratty yet lovable Rocky Point:
Legalizing the production and distribution of marijuana in California could cut the price of the drug by as much as 80 percent and increase consumption, according to a new study by the nonprofit RAND Corporation that examines many issues raised by proposals to legalize marijuana in the state...Based on an analysis of known production costs and surveys of the current price of marijuana, researchers suggest the untaxed retail price of high-quality marijuana could drop to as low as $38 per ounce compared to about $375 per ounce today.
THE RAND CORPORATION
 
This is how we end the drug war and save our ratty yet lovable Rocky Point:
Legalizing the production and distribution of marijuana in California could cut the price of the drug by as much as 80 percent and increase consumption, according to a new study by the nonprofit RAND Corporation that examines many issues raised by proposals to legalize marijuana in the state...Based on an analysis of known production costs and surveys of the current price of marijuana, researchers suggest the untaxed retail price of high-quality marijuana could drop to as low as $38 per ounce compared to about $375 per ounce today.
THE RAND CORPORATION
We would definitely support any solution that would reduce the earnings of the Drug Cartels hoping that that would reduce their power and the level of violence that they bring to both countries.
 

lagrimas85

AKA Carnac
Front page of this weeks edition of De Frente, Oscar Palacio taking about the presence of the big cartels now in Penasco.
 

Stuart

Aye carumba!!!
Staff member
Look at the thread a couple of posts down. It has the link. Was posted yesterday, but fell into the Moderation queue. I just released it.
 
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