lagrimas85
AKA Carnac
Bobby Joe, I was reading the El Imparcial newspaper the other day, the locals are being terrorized and many are leaving town with nothing but the shirts on their backs.
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Cartel Shootout - Sounds like it was Southwest of Nogales
- Thread starter Encanto
- Start date
Roberto
Guest
That's pretty funny. First, if you had taken the time to think, explore and gather some information for your understanding you would have realized this particular event did not take place in a vacumn, a specially prepared battlefield, you know like a board game at home. Lack of consideration is indifference right? Your earlier support of letting them fight it out seemed to me a general one, not specific to this little town. Maybe I got that wrong. You weren't the only one advocating what seems to me wholesale violence. Where ever they decide to meet, let them shoot it out and mop up later sort of logic. Do you actually believe that you can let two large groups of armed men fight it out with automatic weapons, grenades, etc in or near homes, towns, farms across a country without innocent people being involved? Oh then we might have a bit of collateral damage, might be a few non-combatants harmed a bit. A few shacks damaged, no great loss, it was not in my neighborhood. Hey guy, try using the words innocent men, women, children and Homes. All the violence in TV and movies has desensitized several generations of US folk.
Audsley Sez:
'Actually, I always thought recognizing and accepting that some cultures are different from mine and accepting that this isn't necessarily a bad, was a sign that I'm enlightened and all that. Seems a guy can't win when the political correctness police feel like going on a tear. "
What is this nonsense gobbledygook?? What did you recognize was different in this situation than the US? That it is in a different country, Mexico so it's OK ? Hey guy, there is no winning, it's a matter of morality and sensitivity. Politics are temporary, what's correct one day is not the next, that's the point of the phrase 'Politically Correct". It's also irrelevant whether you are a Tea Party guy or an NPR freak. Your enlightenment seems to me to be passed through a distorted lens, the US way of seeing things, knowing best, correct, willing to permit or ignore violence against other people who are different.
I think people who expose themselves to the crap on TV and movies view the violence of conflict as presented by the media as public entertainment, as long as they are not the ones in with the lions. It's exciting as long as I'm in the spectator seats , no ? I'm going to go vomit.
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Thanks, Inka.
It was this post - can you all not see it? Sometimes my Mod view is different than y'all.
http://www.rockypointtalk.net/showthread.php?2274-Article-from-Defrente-Newspaper-July-7-2010
Inka - still trying to figure out the sig thingie. Will let you know what I come up with. As I best I can tell, it *should* work with the current settings.
It was this post - can you all not see it? Sometimes my Mod view is different than y'all.
http://www.rockypointtalk.net/showthread.php?2274-Article-from-Defrente-Newspaper-July-7-2010
Inka - still trying to figure out the sig thingie. Will let you know what I come up with. As I best I can tell, it *should* work with the current settings.
Roberto
Guest
LUCKY 85 SEZ "Bobby Joe, I was reading the El Imparcial newspaper the other day, the locals are being terrorized and many are leaving town with nothing but the shirts on their backs. "
Yes, and abandoning the animals, farms and fields that provided a sometimes meger living with no place to go to. What will be remaining when they return? Maybe they can recycle shell casings for the brass? Hopefully they won't have to deal with personnel mines.
Yes, and abandoning the animals, farms and fields that provided a sometimes meger living with no place to go to. What will be remaining when they return? Maybe they can recycle shell casings for the brass? Hopefully they won't have to deal with personnel mines.
rockyptjoe
Guest
I just love the "moral high horse" you're trying to ride here!!! If you recall the basis for some of the comments made, it was the possible "collusion" of the US and Mexican governments, and the reasoning for allowing the cartels to shoot it out, then mop up whoever was left standing. So you would prefer to have the Mexican army also involved in the shootout that was discussed? I'm sure the cartels would just put their guns down and give themselves up....right??? And then more lives would be lost...namely the soldiers? Do you think any fewer "innocents" lives would be lost? So let's keep this discussion in the context the comments were made!!! :stir::fail:
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Roberto
Guest
It has been my observation for the past couple of years that Penasco is more and more visited by Mexican tourists. Interesting that most come from the West and fewer from the South and East. More from Mexicali than Hermosillo. These demographic changes will change the landscape of businesses in Penasco.
InkaRoads
cronopiador
Thanks Stuart, somehow I stepped into some BB coding in the forum and showed me some examples and tried them all with no results, seadweller sent me a signature with the link to the website but it didn't work either, Thanks for looking!!
by the way the article is visibly find in the "general" forum entered yesterday by colombianob1, so is there!
by the way the article is visibly find in the "general" forum entered yesterday by colombianob1, so is there!
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Roberto
Guest
RPJ sez; just love the "moral high horse" you're trying to ride here!!! If you recall the basis for some of the comments made, it was the possible "collusion" of the US and Mexican governments, and the reasoning for allowing the cartels to shoot it out, then mop up whoever was left standing. So you would prefer to have the Mexican army also involved in the shootout that was discussed? And more lives to be lost...namely the soldiers? Do you think any fewer "innocents" lives would be lost? So let's keep this discussion in the context the comments were made!!! :stir::fail:
Oh, Ok sorry, you did NOT advocate wholesale violence and you did show consideration for innocent bystanders, my mistake, sorry. Those words came out so someone else's mouth. March on !!
Oh, Ok sorry, you did NOT advocate wholesale violence and you did show consideration for innocent bystanders, my mistake, sorry. Those words came out so someone else's mouth. March on !!
Roberto
Guest
RPJ SEz...I would wait till they shot each up, and then mop up afterwards. Actually, I would encourage (or facilitate) more gunfights like this one.....send misinformation to both camps so that they show up at the same location.....and let the fireworks begin!!! Then bring in a couple of helicopter gunships to mop up....they are brutal killers and should be treated that way!
What has this kind of thinking to do with complicity ? Hell lets nuke em !!
What has this kind of thinking to do with complicity ? Hell lets nuke em !!
rockyptjoe
Guest
Am I advocating wholesale violence for the cartels?????HELL YES....they are nothing more than rabid animals.
Am I advocating violence for innocent bystanders....definitely not, and don't try to twist or interpret any of my statements to that effect!!! How many other "innocent bystanders" have and will be killed if the cartels are permitted to continue on their current track? With the Mexican army being out gunned, you would still like them to get involved in a shootout that they may or may not have known was coming???? I think it would be better tactics to allow the cartels to knock each other off, then come in the finish! Was there a way to prevent the shootout with an Mexican army presence at the location....I doubt it....the Army would probably have been caught in a crossfire of the cartels.
rockyptjoe
Guest
Obviously we're BOTH missing each other's points.....or I'm not conveying my thought process to you in terms that you can comprehend!
jerry
Guest
Tubutama is a typical ranch town.Some people live in the town but many live on ranches and smaller settlements connected to it by the spider web of dirt roads and the main road to Saric. Those people have been effected by this big time.Young women threatened with rape,gas station shut down,check points in the middle of nowhere.The military has taken a side.They stand with the biggest international gangster in the world Chapo Guzman.Just as we don't go after the Northern Alliance heroin cartel in Afganistan we and the Mexican Army use Guzman. he is a valuable asset in our surge against the other cartels and he keeps and eye on the border for us
Jerry,
So you're suggesting that despite Calderone's public pronoucement to the contrary, Mexico's national policy hasn't changed much from what it was under Fox and his predecessors. Drug smuggling will continue to operate under government franchise, except that it's now to become a monopoly as soon as Guzman can consolidate control, and all this is sanctioned by the US. I'd like to think that's not true, but i have to allow that it could be.
NPR did a study of sorts which showed the Sinaloans have suffered the least from the government's supposed crackdown. Your theory fits that finding. However, I don't think we can do more than speculate. It's possible that Calderone plans to go after the Sinaloans later when they're weaker, assuming they're actually getting weaker.
As for Roberto's critique of my earlier posts, I'd like to know what the Mexican government could have done to protect the locals in Tubatama unless they had prior knowledge of when and where the shootout would take place. What should they have done upon learning there wa a shootout in progress at this location? My question now is whether there are still narcos in the immediate area and, if so, why the army isn't moving in to protect the locals.
So you're suggesting that despite Calderone's public pronoucement to the contrary, Mexico's national policy hasn't changed much from what it was under Fox and his predecessors. Drug smuggling will continue to operate under government franchise, except that it's now to become a monopoly as soon as Guzman can consolidate control, and all this is sanctioned by the US. I'd like to think that's not true, but i have to allow that it could be.
NPR did a study of sorts which showed the Sinaloans have suffered the least from the government's supposed crackdown. Your theory fits that finding. However, I don't think we can do more than speculate. It's possible that Calderone plans to go after the Sinaloans later when they're weaker, assuming they're actually getting weaker.
As for Roberto's critique of my earlier posts, I'd like to know what the Mexican government could have done to protect the locals in Tubatama unless they had prior knowledge of when and where the shootout would take place. What should they have done upon learning there wa a shootout in progress at this location? My question now is whether there are still narcos in the immediate area and, if so, why the army isn't moving in to protect the locals.
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jerry
Guest
Hey the status quo(minus the violence) is really best for both countries. Cheap foreign labor that can be fired on the spot helps our less sophisticated industries and sends huge amounts of money back to mexico (not to mention the dope money} keeps mexico solvent..... both countries win (except little guys like me and mexican corn farmers) Maybe a grand deal that legalizes the workers here now,decriminalize weed and endsautomatic American citizenship to a baby born here would make for a better deal...until then just another day in paradise.
janetandclint
Guest
I agree. We all need to abhor all violence everywhere for all people. The villagers in this battlefield near or by Tubutama have closed their schools early, hidden out, left town, stopped public events, stopped reading electric meters and lost two city officials. and must live in great fear for their safety. I live on the border and having friends on both sides and know just how much people suffer.
rockyptjoe
Guest
Very nice sentiment....I also abhor violence...BUT....let me know when you're going to wave your magic wand and all evil in the world will disappear. You're going to walk over to the cartel with an olive branch?
These are not reasonable people that have an ounce of humanity in their bodies. They are animals with no concern with how much pain and suffering they inflict....it's actually an insult to animals calling them that!
That's what I was thinkin'................
jerry
Guest
no they are businessmen....you just have to make them a better offer