Two more homicides?

[PitiquitoRosy]

You'd be surprised what cops know and what they don't, even more so in RP. I bet some murders they aren't supposed to know about, or even talk about. I'm not saying this murder rumor is true or not because I don't know, but I wouldn't assume you are getting all the facts from one cop buddy.

Soooo....the cops don't know the real truth, yours truly didn't report it, in www.rockypointnewsonline.com because there was absolutely not a hint of it happening...and yet an American in the States heard of it and is warning people? Geez...there are UFO and Elvis sightings, too.

Sub, no one can prove it DIDN'T happen...but there is absolutely no indication that it did.

Rosie

 

[PitiquitoRosy]

This thread sure got hi-jacked. Did anyone confirm if this was true?

No, it isn't true.
Rosie

 

[Jim]

Thank you Rosy. Finally, the voice of reason. And Shawn, I love your ninja scenario.

 

[asprinkles]

I have been on the sites for a couple of years and some people are just not happy with there own life, and try to make everyone else's hell. Don't waste your time with this. There is so much more than waste your time on this. Leigh

 

[dmcauley]

Consider the source!!!

 

[Submarine]

So somehow having a spirited discussion is 'making other people's lives hell'... Perhaps "Leigh" would like to spring for some group counselling for us all so we can cope, or perhaps suggest other refuges from our pain.

I think we are all adults here and although M4shawn has gone a little out of bounds maybe he's taken a deep breath on my brief hiatus.

I disagree with Bob's interpretation of the statistics I presented (which are based on years 2000-2008 BTW). My point is that, based on the historical statistics, Mexico is twice as dangerous as the U.S. on average, no matter where you are. Because the murder rate is based on population as a whole, it gives you a more accurate average rate vs. any hotspot. His freeway scenario seems flawed to me as it places you in a situation where you can almost guarantee a 'hit', sort of like if you were standing in the middle of a drug dealer gun battle. But it's his interpretation so more power to him.

I read an interesting story about a town in southern mexico besieged by drug cartels. You'll forgive me for not having the name handy but I left it at home. What was interesting was that the story talked about how the violence there never made the news but one killing in Cancun or Mazatlan would be all over the international wire. It made me think about what I'm really getting to about drug violence in Mexico, and a point I think you all are ignoring.

Drug violence is rampant in the border cities and drug corridors. Mexico is a big country and it's impossible for the police or even the army to rid the country of the drug cartels as long as drugs are illegal in the U.S. and Mexico is a way to get it here. If the Mexican government succeeds in driving out the drug cartels in one area, they will only seek another corridor. We have seen a lot of changes in Rocky Point: a new coastal highway, larger airport, talk of larger marinas and pipelines for oil etc. All of which would be very tempting for drug cartels seeking a new corridor.

I don't see anything that can stop this from happening but ignoring a problem never solved anything. It's time to wake up to what will (soon?) be Rocky Point's reality.

 

[Submarine]

Soooo....the cops don't know the real truth, yours truly didn't report it, in www.rockypointnewsonline.com because there was absolutely not a hint of it happening...and yet an American in the States heard of it and is warning people? Geez...there are UFO and Elvis sightings, too.

Sub, no one can prove it DIDN'T happen...but there is absolutely no indication that it did.

Rosie

Show me where I stated, unequivocally, that the murders rumored at the beginning of this thread were a fact.

 

[Submarine]

Shawn,

Just tell Sub you think a Chevy Duramax could out pull his sorry-ass Ford and call it even.

<me likes poking snakes with sticks! Uh-huh!>

Hey you drive the same F250 I do! Wait, I mean Prius. Yup, that's it a Prius.
Never been a better time in the country to drive a Ford eh Stuart? And now Hummer is being sold to the Chinese? I'll bring the kung pao to the next rally.

 

[Submarine]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]Monday, December 3, 2007

Violent Crime Threatens Baja California, Mexico Tourism

By Nancy Conroy

A spate of recent reports in the US press about carjackings, highway robberies and violent crime in Baja California, Mexico is threatening to destroy tourism. Over Thanksgiving weekend, few visitors arrived in Baja California and major tourist destinations were empty. Negative reports about Baja California crime are all over the Internet, with most people saying that they are sick of everything about Mexico and will never travel there again.

Tourism officials are currently conducting emergency meetings, and they are expected to make a public announcement within a week. But it is simple to predict what the officials are going to say. They will claim that the crime wave was a brief aberration, measures have been taken, and the problem has now been solved.

Believe that story at your peril.

Although the current crime wave has only now been reported by the US press, actually these violent attacks on tourists have been occurring at least since last summer. The reports currently coming out in San Diego are not necessarily new incidents. Some of them happened last August or September, when the last wave of carjackings hit the Baja California toll roads. The problem settled down in September and October, and then started up again with a vengeance in November.

There was also a rash of attacks and carjackings in August of 2006, but that one was covered up more effectively and most people have forgotten about it. But, “Baja 1000” car racers have not forgotten the murder of Duane Curtis on a lonely beach last year during the 2006 race. That memory is probably what prompted them to arrive late at the race this year, leave early, and report all crimes to the US press.

Again, these incidents are nothing new, but the tourists and sportsmen are fed up with them and finally going public.

Covering up incidents of crime against American tourists has long been a basic goal for Baja California officials and real estate leaders. When a Baja California tourism e-newsletter recently reprinted one of the crime articles, real estate and tourism officials sent emails to the webmaster arguing that circulating such information was an act of “negativity.” The Gringo Gazette North, an English language newspaper in Baja California, first reported the carjacking problems last September and received aggressive criticism for doing so. Leaders and officials prefer to deny reports, ignore the truth, and lean on the local media to kill the story. They do nothing about the problem until the US press starts to report it.

Now the officials are in full PR and damage control mode. They will trot out an old script that they have read to the US press before, saying that there will now be a safe, “no-shakedown” corridor in the tourist zone. That story is an old yarn that sounds good in press announcements, but has never actually been implemented. They will also say that the crime wave was a temporary phenomenon associated with the change in government administration, a claim that is disproved by the actual dates of the crimes. They will then dramatically unveil new anti-crime initiatives, measures that have been tried before and have never worked in the past. The idea is to convince the American newspapers to report that safety programs are in place, the problem is solved, and Baja California is now safe for tourists.

The Baja California officials genuinely would like to believe their own claims, but in reality crime is out of their control. The carjackings are not being committed by ordinary criminals, the perpetrators are armed commando squads affiliated with drug cartels. Local, state and federal authorities do not have adequate resources to fight the “Men in Black.” The only action that has ever successfully decreased Baja California crime is federal intervention by the Mexican military, and a tourism protection initiative proposed by business leaders is not going to solve the problem.

In the past, drug crime in Baja California did not affect tourists or the American community as much. Previously, the shootings and kidnappings seemed to be directed at police or drug dealers, and Americans were largely unaffected.

Now however, the new carjacking methodology does specifically target Americans, especially naive tourists. An unmarked vehicle, usually a pick up or SUV, flashes police lights and sirens at a car with California plates driving on the toll road. Believing that the car is a police cruiser, the American pulls over to the side of the road and is attacked by armed commandos. Anyone with a sharp eye can learn to identify these vehicles with the lights and sirens, and will soon realize that many of these cars roam the streets, sometimes in caravans. This is a new phenomenon that has emerged over the last year, one that represents a serious threat to American tourists as well as Mexico’s important tourism industry.

——————————
Nancy Conroy is the Publisher of northern Baja California’s biweekly Gringo Gazette North. She can be reached via e-mail at [email protected].
[/FONT]

Link to article: http://mexidata.info/id1634.html

Don't worry, nothing like this could ever happen in Rocky Point.....or could it?
SO that's the reason for those "Hassle free" zone signs?!?
I'm sure the local policia with all their shiny new Dodge trucks and urban camo are better equipped than their Baja counterparts to repel any criminal organization. The two highway patrolmen are more than enough to handle the 60 miles from Sonoyta to RP.
I feel safer already!

 

[Submarine]

From the CIA Factbook on Mexico. That's a lot of yey-yo!

Illicit drugs:​

major drug-producing nation; cultivation of opium poppy in 2007 rose to 6,900 hectares yielding a potential production of 18 metric tons of pure heroin, or 50 metric tons of "black tar" heroin, the dominant form of Mexican heroin in the western United States; marijuana cultivation increased to 8,900 hectares in 2007 and yielded a potential production of 15,800 metric tons; government conducts the largest independent illicit-crop eradication program in the world; continues as the primary transshipment country for US-bound cocaine from South America, with an estimated 90% of annual cocaine movements toward the US stopping in Mexico; major drug syndicates control the majority of drug trafficking throughout the country; producer and distributor of ecstasy; significant money-laundering center; major supplier of heroin and largest foreign supplier of marijuana and methamphetamine to the US market (2007)
This page was last updated on 14 May 2009

Bet that coastal highway is looking mighty convenient.

 

[Submarine]

Excerpts from: http://www.state.gov/p/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2005/vol1/html/42364.htm

II. Status of Country

As much as 90 percent of the cocaine sold in the U.S. is smuggled through Mexican territory from South America. Mexico is also one of the largest producers of marijuana and heroin consumed in the U.S. Most cocaine smuggled through Mexico arrives by maritime means, including commercial shipping, with ocean vessels moving large quantities along the eastern Pacific and through the Gulf of California, and fishing vessels and go-fast boats operating in the Pacific between the northern coast of South America and the southern coast of Mexico. While the Pacific coast of Mexico remained the preferred smuggling route for Andean cocaine, there is increased trafficking through the western Caribbean—possibly a response to the success of Mexican and regional interdiction operations. In addition, traffickers used air cargo, couriers, and mail parcels through Mexico and Central America as alternate smuggling routes.
--------
But Sonora and Rocky Point will somehow remain immune?
--------
Drug Flow and Transit. Cocaine flow to the United States became more concentrated through Mexico in 2004. Approximately ninety percent of South American cocaine sold in U.S. markets passed through Mexico territory. Mexico was also a major producer and transit zone for marijuana, heroin, and methamphetamine destined for the U.S. Methamphetamine traffic was concentrated in Mexican/U.S. border area and drug groups established methamphetamine laboratories in northwestern Mexico, with production for exported to the U.S. Mexican criminal organizations dominated drug trafficking operations in the U.S., controlling most of the primary distribution centers. U.S. and Mexican authorities have cooperated closely to dismantle these operations on both sides of the border.

With the sharp increase in Mexican domestic drug abuse, traffickers expanded operations into major Mexican cities, along Mexico's northern border, and in major tourist zones to complement smuggling to the United States and diversify their markets
-----------

If we have learned anything from the Drug War it should be when you cut off one head of the snake, another rises to take it's place. Rocky Point, with all the changes it has gone through, is highly likely to be a future corridor if it isn't being exploited already. What will produce the violence is when the various cartels fight among themselves for the 'right' to the corridor. I'm sure they'll settle it with a vicious game of volleyball though!

 

[Submarine]

http://forums.viperclub.org/arizona/623748-puerto-penasco.html

Some of you better sign up and start posting over there right now! Tourists are being deferred to Florida as we speak!

 

[Submarine]

Sub, they just might be a pile of rocks to you, and they are not made of Coral, but they are still reefs... here

Kenny

F you and your "reefs"! :lol: Those are more shoals or mounds, hardly worthy of calling a "reef". A reef would be composed of something organic, or living at one time, not those miserable pile of rocks! :fish: :fish:

I can see where it would ruin the Sandy Beach mystique though. People aren't going to pay Scottsdale prices for shrimp at a restaurant called "The Shoal". Guess I'm just prejudiced though from seeing some of the best and most vibrant coral reefs close up. I'll try to refrain!

 

[jerry]

for a group of macho car guys they sure seem to be well....chickens
ooh stranger danger,the mexicans will kill us all,,,black man in the white house.....
Must be hard work spending so much time living it fear!

 

[m4shawn]

I disagree with Bob's interpretation of the statistics I presented....But it's his interpretation so more power to him.

Hahaha! Bob's "interpretation" of those stats? Hahaha! OK Sub - later I'll give my "interpretation" of the facts that the earth is round or that Rocky Point isn't a vampire haven and you can continue to blah-blah-blah "dispute" it. Good Lord, brother.... this is just a parody of a debate. Wow.

It's time to wake up to what will (soon?) be Rocky Point's reality.

That's great - put that on a t-shirt, Chicken Little. Ninjas......

I thought you had finally got what I and others were saying, Sub. (Sigh.....) 7 posts in your return raid... And I'm that one that is "out of bounds" and needs to "take a deep breath"?
You're funny.

 

[Submarine]

You know, M4shawn, you might revisit another word "Objectivity" as you have lost yours. You see to have become irrationaly emotional over this whole debate.

Interestingly enough, if I were given a choice of your 'ninjas' and the drug cartels of today, I would pick ninjas hands down. While there is some debate that Ninjas even existed, the consensus seems to be that they practiced bushido which in that time period involved loyalty to their master and purpose, compassion for lower classes (as probably most of us here would be seen as today), honor, and even politeness. Maybe you'd like to change it to pirates or something?

Well if you and Bob want to disregard statistics based on your own reality be my guest. The groups that compiles those statistics didn't do so on the basis that they are worthless for comparison. What would be the point? In fact, the figures might be slightly skewed downward in other countries because of how intentional homicides are reported and codified. Not every country has adopted uniform standards of reporting violent crime as the FBI has here. However, I doubt that most of Mexico's rather horrific violence of the last few years hasn't made it into the "intentional homicide" category. Hard to argue someone's head being cut off and put on display wasn't intentional! Maybe an unusual form of seppuku in your world??

 

[Submarine]

for a group of macho car guys they sure seem to be well....chickens
ooh stranger danger,the mexicans will kill us all,,,black man in the white house.....
Must be hard work spending so much time living it fear!

"It was once said that a black man would be President when pigs fly. Well Behold! 100 days into his Presidency, here it is, a swine flu!"

That forum was pretty entertaining but it seems to be the view held by most American's today doesn't it? I'd like to see some tourism numbers.

 

[Stuart]

"
That forum was pretty entertaining but it seems to be the view held by most American's today doesn't it?

Oh, c'mon. It's a Dodge Viper forum! I put their credibility about travel to Mexico right up there with a Porche or Corvette forum. They are compensating for something, but due to the "family" nature of our little forum here, I'm not going into detail. (tiny penis) :lol::lol::lol:

But yes, Sub. I'll give you credit, that thread *is* a perfect example of the media brainwashing that has taken place on the general public. Mexico is a bad place. I'm a sheep... baaah... baaah... baaah. Obama is the Savior and will bring us change. Baaaah. The Muslims are just "misunderstood" and are really our friends. Baaah... baaah. Iran has a legitimate need for nuclear power. Baaah. Chicken little was right, the sky is falling and species are dying and it's all because you and I are evil and drive great big honkin' trucks that are superheating the planet and killing everything... baaah... baaah. Baaah???

I'll add this - as I lay in bed watching the Fox 10 News here in Phoenix last night, I turned to the wife and said "Damn! I'm GLAD I'm going to Mexico this weekend! I'll feel safer!" Exploding DPS cars, several different murders, some dickhead raping a passed out girl and posting it on his website, Mesa cops beating (okay, some "overzealous manhandling") of a guy in handcuffs, while other Mesa cops flushed a miscarried fetus down the toilet, a homeless mentard spreading a box of feces around on the light rail... the list just seemed to go on and on of some pretty damned horrific stuff.

30 miles out on the boat, it's just me, the dolphins, the fishies, and a cold Pacifico. I'm may not come back this time.

<cue Forum Jukebox... loading Styx "Come Sail Away"> :boat:

 

[m4shawn]

You know, M4shawn, you might revisit another word "Objectivity" as you have lost yours. You see to have become irrationaly emotional over this whole debate.

Just saying it doesn't make it true, Sub, I really :-D do not know where you are coming from here. Impugning the stability of your adversary is an old standby tactic that of itself is hollow. I would call your accusation that I suffer a lack of objectivity an odd one when both our posts are read.

Interestingly enough, if I were given a choice of your 'ninjas' and the drug cartels of today, I would pick ninjas hands down. While there is some debate that Ninjas even existed, the consensus seems to be that they practiced bushido which in that time period involved loyalty to their master and purpose, compassion for lower classes (as probably most of us here would be seen as today), honor, and even politeness. Maybe you'd like to change it to pirates or something?

Huh???? Are you -- derrr... what?

Well if you and Bob want to disregard statistics based on your own reality be my guest.

Once again: hahahaha! Mine and Bob's own reality? I think Bob took the time to break this down pretty damn well a few posts back; if you're the only one who still can't understand what he explained and how these stats are meaningless in a discussion about any new and special danger with regard to border violence specific to RP..... then I really think this is like debating the color of a sunset with a blind man.

The groups that compiles those statistics didn't do so on the basis that they are worthless for comparison. What would be the point?

Sub....(god) no one challenged their worth when utilized contextually correctly - we didn't try to sully the compilation nor the group that did it - we're decrying YOU and your attempt to co-opt them as somehow proving your point that urban myth murders may be going on all around RP and we don't know it and as such, the danger in RP is probably valid as are the feelings of fear about going there.
Really man, obfuscating the original point is also a bad tactic. I'm pretty much done debating tangential crap on these irrelevant detours. Go ahead and try to bury me with piles of links, stats, articles and other ancillary grenades, man.

It keeps coming back to the lurking ninja concept - recheck Rosy's post - she's a wise one.

 

[PitiquitoRosy]

Show me where I stated, unequivocally, that the murders rumored at the beginning of this thread were a fact.

Back up, Bud! I responded to the thread, not to you. Take your defensiveness to someone who gives a crap about the conclusions you want to ram down other people's throats. And by the way, posting of articles verbatim is tedious. On the internet articles can be found to make any argument under the sun. This is a lively intelligent group and you should be able to hold your own without beating anyone over the head with articles you think support your view of where Mexico is headed unless more people listen to you.