Deported Mexicans Social and Economic Effect on Puerto Penasco

[janetandclint]

It's amazing the drift from the original subject of this thread. Over the last couple of years, I have encountered a number of Mexicans in Rocky Point, mostly working in the stores, with a very good command of the English language. I usually compliment them on their English ability, and ask them where they learned their English. Invariably, they reply that they had lived in the US for a period of time, and were either deported back to Mexico, or voluntarilly returned. I usually don't press for details. One shocked me by volunteering that he was a heroin dealer in Los Angeles, fleeing from the law. According to an ICE friend, because of the increasing illegal alien sentiment in the US, many living here illegally are self-deporting, the majority of those in the current wave with some kind of criminal record hanging over their head.

Sure, some families are broken up because of a family member living here illegally, getting caught, and subsequently deported. The same happens when a family member commits a crime, gets convicted, and is sentenced to prison. Since there is a way for a US citizen to bring a spouse legally into the US, one shouldn't whine about getting caught breaking the law. Do it right, or pay the price for stupidity.

By the way, I sure resent how much the word "stupidity" is used in some of these communications. Some like you would consider people "stupid" to desire a better way of life for their families, to be able to feed and educate them and enter another country illegally, when they see no way of doing it legally nor have any money for doing it legally. But I guarantee you that if these same people that use this word so freely, were living in the poverty that many of the families that came here illegally, lived in, and the hopelessness and lonliness for their family members that had already crossed to the other side, and they had No employment nor any way of making a living, they too, the people using the word "stupid" would cross any river or international border to another country in the hopes of earning a living.

 

[mis2810]

By the way, I sure resent how much the word "stupidity" is used in some of these communications. Some like you would consider people "stupid" to desire a better way of life for their families, to be able to feed and educate them and enter another country illegally, when they see no way of doing it legally nor have any money for doing it legally. But I guarantee you that if these same people that use this word so freely, were living in the poverty that many of the families that came here illegally, lived in, and the hopelessness and lonliness for their family members that had already crossed to the other side, and they had No employment nor any way of making a living, they too, the people using the word "stupid" would cross any river or international border to another country in the hopes of earning a living.

Thank you Janet! You put the words to the feelings so eloquently.

Miramar - I didn't ask you to feel sorry for anybody. But don't you think it's a bit hypocritical that using fake social security numbers has been going on for DECADES and all of sudden it's become this huge issue? Wasn't it the government that left the back door to the border open and looked the other way for 20 years after Reagan's amnesty in the 80's? I don't recall all the construction companies, factories, etc., complaining to the feds that they were being overrun by Mexicans looking for work. No, they quietly hired ALL of them and systematically drove down the wages. Why? Because it was good for their profit margins! Whenever there is a financial crisis in any country there always has to be a scapegoat. This time it's the Mexicans.

 

[mis2810]

Did you mean that in a mean spirited way? I was complementing the incredible communication in this thread, which I did start.

Lagrimas doesn't say anything that's not mean-spirited.

 

[janetandclint]

Thank you Janet! You put the words to the feelings so eloquently.

Miramar - I didn't ask you to feel sorry for anybody. But don't you think it's a bit hypocritical that using fake social security numbers has been going on for DECADES and all of sudden it's become this huge issue? Wasn't it the government that left the back door to the border open and looked the other way for 20 years after Reagan's amnesty in the 80's? I don't recall all the construction companies, factories, etc., complaining to the feds that they were being overrun by Mexicans looking for work. No, they quietly hired ALL of them and systematically drove down the wages. Why? Because it was good for their profit margins! Whenever there is a financial crisis in any country there always has to be a scapegoat. This time it's the Mexicans.

And in our house, we are so concerned about this scapegoating.

 

[mis2810]

The other thing that was mentioned on here - I think by Smilin' Jack - is that now that my husband is legal I should be resentful of illegals. How does that work? I automatically change how I feel about millions of people just because my husband has a new item in his wallet? I should start resenting my brother-in-law because he works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week? My husband and I were lucky we had the opportunity to get him legal. People like my BIL don't have that opportunity to have someone petition for them.

 

[AZ ROB]

with this being the case when will we have legal murder, how about legal drunk driving. How about what happend to a very close and dear friend of mine who was killed by an illegal who was driving drunk. This person also had fake id. Should we over look this because he was impoverished in his home country? I have some very close friends who immigrated to this country legally and I have a few guys who I have hired that are still on work visa's they are working on becoming legal citizens the correct way. They are embarrased by all of the protest most of which are from people outside of AZ. ie 11 busloads of protesters from L.A.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to get a better life but lets do it the right way.

 

[mis2810]

with this being the case when will we have legal murder, how about legal drunk driving. How about what happend to a very close and dear friend of mine who was killed by an illegal who was driving drunk. This person also had fake id. Should we over look this because he was impoverished in his home country? I have some very close friends who immigrated to this country legally and I have a few guys who I have hired that are still on work visa's they are working on becoming legal citizens the correct way. They are embarrased by all of the protest most of which are from people outside of AZ. ie 11 busloads of protesters from L.A.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to get a better life but lets do it the right way.

Of course we shouldn't overlook this! This person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law as a murderer. But, whose fault is it that they're here in the first place? If someone's house gets robbed because they forgot to lock the door, wouldn't you say, "Well it's your fault because you didn't lock the door!" The US government left the door unlocked!!! Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Not every illegal Mexican is a murdering, drunk driver, either. There's a lot of white people that drive drunk, too.

On December 23, 1994, I was driving home from work and was hit by a Mexican man with no driver's license, and no insurance. I was MAD! I'm ashamed to say it now, but I went home and told everyone I knew that these people had no right to be here, why don't they just load them all up on busses and send them back to Mexico. Obviously, I wasn't married to my Mexican husband at the time. I didn't have any personal contact with any Mexicans in my little, narrow, white and corporate world. Unless you count the ladies cleaning the bathrooms at the office, that is. Over the years, I became interested in Latin music, especially salsa dancing and my interraction with all sorts of hispanic people became normal for me - from the illegal Mexican landscaper, to the Dominican ex-Major League baseball player who overstayed his visa, that I would dance with at Pepin's in Scottsdale. Once I put personal faces, names and stories to this issue, it opened up my mind to the human reality of it. I can't blame millions of people, most of whom are honest and hardworking, for the bad things that other people do.

 

[MIRAMAR]

Mis2810, I believe you did want us to feel sorry for her when you said: She couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal. I think the use of SSNs has become more prominent as the tax laws have changed, requiring employers have SSNs. I saw the impact of this when working at a tax software company this tax season. There were a very LARGE number of calls from people whose 1040s were rejected by the IRS because their W-2 information didn't agree with the IRS's W-2 info. When they called to find out why, they found another person was using their SSN. Until they were able to get the issue resolved, their tax form couldn't be processed and any money they were getting back was put on hold.

Just because this has happened in the past doesn't mean we need to continue with this practice. All companies need to verify their employees are legal and should be punished when they choose to hire illegal workers. By the way, I'm sure Starbucks was paying the woman regular wages which are pretty good- my son was a Barrista at Starbucks.

 

[mis2810]

Mis2810, I believe you did want us to feel sorry for her when you said: She couldn't stand living with the fear any longer because she and her husband were both illegal. I think the use of SSNs has become more prominent as the tax laws have changed, requiring employers have SSNs. I saw the impact of this when working at a tax software company this tax season. There were a very LARGE number of calls from people whose 1040s were rejected by the IRS because their W-2 information didn't agree with the IRS's W-2 info. When they called to find out why, they found another person was using their SSN. Until they were able to get the issue resolved, their tax form couldn't be processed and any money they were getting back was put on hold.

Just because this has happened in the past doesn't mean we need to continue with this practice. All companies need to verify their employees are legal and should be punished when they choose to hire illegal workers. By the way, I'm sure Starbucks was paying the woman regular wages which are pretty good- my son was a Barrista at Starbucks.

You can believe that I wanted you to feel sorry for her, but that really was not my intent. So, then why isn't the government punishing employers that hire illegals? Tell me why? Since 2007 when the law in AZ went into effect there has only been one company that was prosecuted. What about all the other companies that Good Ol' Joe has raided? Why isn't it MANDATORY that companies use the e-verify system? It's all a smoke screen to get people riled up and blame it all on the illegal workers. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain - a la "The Wizard of Oz"! The man behind the curtain is hiring the illegal workers!!!

 

[rockyptjoe]

Of course we shouldn't overlook this! This person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law as a murderer. But, whose fault is it that they're here in the first place? If someone's house gets robbed because they forgot to lock the door, wouldn't you say, "Well it's your fault because you didn't lock the door!" The US government left the door unlocked!!! Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Not every illegal Mexican is a murdering, drunk driver, either. There's a lot of white people that drive drunk, too.

On December 23, 1994, I was driving home from work and was hit by a Mexican man with no driver's license, and no insurance. I was MAD! I'm ashamed to say it now, but I went home and told everyone I knew that these people had no right to be here, why don't they just load them all up on busses and send them back to Mexico. Obviously, I wasn't married to my Mexican husband at the time. I didn't have any personal contact with any Mexicans in my little, narrow, white and corporate world. Unless you count the ladies cleaning the bathrooms at the office, that is. Over the years, I became interested in Latin music, especially salsa dancing and my interraction with all sorts of hispanic people became normal for me - from the illegal Mexican landscaper, to the Dominican ex-Major League baseball player who overstayed his visa, that I would dance with at Pepin's in Scottsdale. Once I put personal faces, names and stories to this issue, it opened up my mind to the human reality of it. I can't blame millions of people, most of whom are honest and hardworking, for the bad things that other people do.

That's like saying whose fault is it that the girl got raped? She shouldn't have been wearing those revealing clothes!!! The law doesn't differentiate between a house being robbed with the door unlocked or locked! It does not make it "legal" if the door was unlocked!!! Why is it so hard for YOU to comprehend!

And as someone else posted....I also know people who have become "legal" the right way...and they support the enforcement sof the immigration laws.

 

[mis2810]

That's like saying whose fault is it that the girl got raped? She shouldn't have been wearing those revealing clothes!!! The law doesn't differentiate between a house being robbed with the door unlocked or locked! It does not make it "legal" if the door was unlocked!!! Why is it so hard for YOU to comprehend!

And as someone else posted....I also know people who have become "legal" the right way...and they support the enforcement sof the immigration laws.

Then why talk about security all the time? We have to secure our border, blah, blah, blah . . . we have to get a handle on who is coming in and out this country - they could be terrorists, they could have nuclear weapons, they might want to clean our toilets or mow our lawn! Oh my!

 

[rockyptjoe]

I can't blame millions of people, most of whom are honest and hardworking, for the bad things that other people do.

I don't blame them for wanting to make a better life for themselves....BUT.... I can blame them for trying to do so by breaking the law to begin with! Hey, I'm going to rob a bank to get my start....but I promise to be an upstanding citizen afterwards! :twisted: Yeah...I know...a little exaggerated as an analogy....but true!

 

[mis2810]

I don't blame them for wanting to make a better life for themselves....BUT.... I can blame them for trying to do so by breaking the law to begin with! Hey, I'm going to rob a bank to get my start....but I promise to be an upstanding citizen afterwards! :twisted: Yeah...I know...a little exaggerated as an analogy....but true!

If the government that created this law doesn't respect the law, then why should the people contemplating breaking it respect it?

How many US citizens know that it's illegal to cheat on their taxes but they still do it? Because people know that when there is a good chance they're going to get away with something without any consequences, they do it anyway.

 

[rockyptjoe]

Then why talk about security all the time? We have to secure our border, blah, blah, blah . . . we have to get a handle on who is coming in and out this country - they could be terrorists, they could have nuclear weapons, they might want to clean our toilets or mow our lawn! Oh my!

Apples and oranges......

We were talking about "legal" and breaking the law......

Yes...there is a huge danger of terrorists coming in thru the sieve of a border with Mexico....that is another good argument for tightening the security of our borders. If I wanted to bring a nuclear device into the country, I wouldn't fly it in or send a couple of missiles our way....I would walk it across the Mexican border.....or Canadian border. strich:

 

[MIRAMAR]

JanetandClint: Are you not driving through Arizona this summer because you are upset at SB1070? I didn't quite understand why you are driving north rather than through AZ.

 

[rockyptjoe]

If the government that created this law doesn't respect the law, then why should the people contemplating breaking it respect it?

How many US citizens know that it's illegal to cheat on their taxes but they still do it? Because people know that when there is a good chance they're going to get away with something without any consequences, they do it anyway.

Because it is the law......that should be enough! You're rationalizing.....

The tax cheaters are playing russian roulette.....they may get audited.....having gone thru and IRS audit once, even though I "won" on every issue, I would not want to do so again.....that is enough incentive for me not to try to cheat. The "illegal" immigrants played russian roulette and some lost....they shouldn't complain.....

 

[mis2810]

Because it is the law......that should be enough! You're rationalizing.....

The tax cheaters are playing russian roulette.....they may get audited.....having gone thru and IRS audit once, even though I "won" on every issue, I would not want to do so again.....that is enough incentive for me not to try to cheat. The "illegal" immigrants played russian roulette and some lost....they shouldn't complain.....

Yeah, God forbid, anyone actually thinks rationally about this issue.

 

[rockyptjoe]

Yeah, God forbid, anyone actually thinks rationally about this issue.

In psychology and logic, rationalization (or making excuses[1]) is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation, to differentiate from the original deterministic explanation, of the behavior or feeling in question.[2][3] It is also an informal fallacy of reasoning.[citation needed]

 

[mis2810]

In psychology and logic, rationalization (or making excuses[1]) is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation, to differentiate from the original deterministic explanation, of the behavior or feeling in question.[2][3] It is also an informal fallacy of reasoning.[citation needed]

Okay, Dr. Freud.

 

[rockyptjoe]

mis2810....I never said that it is not an emotional issue, like religion or politics, and most people discuss it more with their emotions rather than logically.

We've all been guilty of rationalization on some topic....."it's wrong, but it's ok to do it because xxxxxxxx....."

And I need to stop posting for a while....Kenny was catching up to me the last week or so, and I've gone bonkers the last couple of days.....:rofl: